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Part time PhD - how to finish?

54 replies

Leskovac · 16/11/2024 13:51

Can I please ask for some moral support and/or tips on how to finish this damned thing, please? I have a full time management job in an academic department, two young children, and I am in the fifth and final year of a part time PhD.

Doing a PhD was longstanding dream, and I was given an opportunity that I could not turn down. I can't honestly say I regret taking it up, but the price has been high in terms of family life and my own health and wellbeing. I sometimes feel like the bloke who has an obsession about climbing Everest and everyone else pays the price.

I am hoping I will look back on it and it will have been worth it (and worth it for my family), but the longer it goes on the harder it gets. I am struggling to identify my core arguments and contribution. Other people's theses seem either brilliant or boring, and either way don't help me work out how to focus and what might be good enough.

Any tips on how to get it over the line? I like writing and I don't usually have a problem with procrastination - I just don't know how to do this!

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BarbaraHoward · 16/11/2024 14:46

Fair play. I was trying to do one part time as a lecturer with young kids and I quit. It was slowly killing me.

Final year, you can do this and grind it out. One word at a time. You'll be so glad when you get there. I used to think about going to my graduation and my girls watching me cross the stage. You'll be so proud of yourself.

From what I can gather, no one thinks their thesis is any good, they know it too well!

PolterGoose · 16/11/2024 15:26

You can do it 💪🏼

I found Pat Thomson's blog and Tara Brabazon's vlogs incredibly useful for the writing up stage and really getting to grips with what examiners are looking for.

The Manchester Uni Academic Phrasebank was also a godsend.

This blog was helpful too:
https://phd.academy/blog/how-i-wrote-a-phd-thesis-in-3-months/

LCM001a · 16/11/2024 17:56

My mantra was that anything I did, no matter how small, got me closer to the end. I hated that last push to get it finished. And yes, while I would have loved my thesis to be the most amazing, well written one, in the end, a finished one was better.

was it worth it? I’m still trying to figure this out

OnarealhorseIride · 16/11/2024 18:08

Can you give any more info? Is your research complete and you are writing? What is the thesis format/subject area? How often do you meet your supervisor? I know subject areas are massively different but as a professor in STEM I would suggest trying to give structure to the time you have before you submit. How is your weekly writing schedule, eg can you do a day a week?

OnarealhorseIride · 16/11/2024 18:11

And remember it’s ok to feel it will never be finished it just needs to ready to submit. Might not be exactly the same thing

fdwthuj · 16/11/2024 18:47

Did my PhD a long time ago and was working full time by my final year. It was really hard but I couldn't "waste" all my effort over the previous years.

One paragraph at a time!

Justkeepingplatesspinning · 16/11/2024 19:59

I did mine part-time while running a dept too and it was awfully hard. You're so close to submitting it though.
If you look for Rowena Murray's writing retreat group on Facebook and join that, there are people doing PhD writing at all sorts of hours. I found writing in company via zoom a godsend. Can you get some time freed up so you have a clear month to get a load done? That's what got me much closer to being finished.

Leskovac · 16/11/2024 21:06

Ah, thanks for all these lovely responses! I wasn't expecting so many. I will look at all those blogs - I just glanced at one earlier in between family stuff.

I've heard good things about writing retreats/writing in company, and I think my institution does them virtually, so I could look into this.

OnarealhorseIride - I am doing qualitative research in the Social Sciences. I have all my data (I'm working with a very large, pre-existing dataset, but one that is not labelled in a very helpful way for what I am studying). I can't talk to the people behind it - I just have the record of the social activity itself, and some contextualising information. I meet my supervisor fairly regularly but the feedback can be quite high level and I don't always find it very actionable - it's more "You need to be clear what body of work you are contributing to - this is currently falling between two stools". So I understand the criticisms but I am not always sure how to respond. My HoD and my husband are both supportive so I am able to find time to work on it, but it's not always predictable as I need to be very responsive in my job role.

Let's say I am studying the practice of weaving, how we know whether someone counts as a skilled weaver, how they acquire that skill and what this means for someone who wants to learn to be a weaver. And I have a lot of videos of people weaving, the people around them and what they do next. However, everyone in this community is extremely good at weaving - they produce consistent fabric with nice straight selvedges (so I infer that this is considered "good"). Therefore, I am saying that the way to get an insight into social meaning of skilled weaving is to see what happens when it goes wrong, e.g. the weft is too tight and pulls the edges in. Does the weaver start again, adjust the tension dynamically, or say they never wanted a straight selvedge in the first place and they prefer a wavy one? I have done this bit of analysis and can show how they way people respond is linked to their social role and interpreted by others in the light of their social role. This is great but only one chapter. The possible responses to dodgy weaving are all documented in the literature - all I've done is shown how they manifest in this community and link it to social role.

So where to go next to make a PhD-worthy contribution to the social meaning of skill in weaving? It's actually quite rare that things go wrong and how people respond when they do is only part of the story, so maybe I could look at how they head off errors in the first place (maybe they are sensitive to particular cues that their loom is about to malfunction). Or I could look at the even rarer occasions when the error mitigation strategy is not successful (e.g. someone who would normally choose to take their wavy-edged fabric in the market does so, but no-one will buy it) - what is the context in which this happens and what are the consequences for their social standing? I have done quite a bit of reading and exploratory data analysis, but I can't see the shape of the whole thing clearly enough to know which way to jump. Once I do, I think I will be able to write something.

The "so what" is about how people are supported to become skilled weavers in this community, and therefore how can we support people to achieve social competence in general - can we make tacit knowledge explicit so that errors are less likely and mitigation strategies are more likely to be successful?

I know I will never have read enough to know for definite, and I need to tie it down somehow, but it is hard to know how...

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Leskovac · 16/11/2024 21:09

My supervisor says I am close, but I don't know whether I really am.

Obviously, I should have done a PhD on weaving.

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PolterGoose · 16/11/2024 21:25

Definitely trust your supervisor!

I totally understand that thing of not being able to do the nitty gritty without being able to see the shape of the whole thing. Qual research is highly reflexive, so don't be afraid to explore that part of the process in your write up. Showing your workings (thinkings) really does help when it comes to the viva.

DoctorDoctor · 16/11/2024 21:33

I really like the analogy! I've gone back and read your posts about the directions to take it to make your contribution. Both seem worthwhile to me. Perhaps it's an Alice in Wonderland question in that sense of it doesn't really matter which route you pick, you just have to pick one. You can then present the other one in the 'challenges for future research following on in this area' - and possibly follow it up later, if you aren't sick of the whole thing by then.

How much have you actually got written, in words?

PolterGoose · 16/11/2024 21:45

Perhaps it's an Alice in Wonderland question in that sense of it doesn't really matter which route you pick, you just have to pick one.

Yes!

I was just thinking about how important it was learning to let stuff go, setting stuff aside for later, and not feeling like everything needs to be included. Taking stuff out can help the rest become more cohesive.

Leskovac · 16/11/2024 21:48

Thanks! And yes, I suspect you are right, but I am struggling with how to make the decision, so that the whole thing is coherent and a sufficient contribution.

I think I’ve got 37k words arranged as actual draft chapters. This includes a methodology chapter (some of this will eventually move to the literature review), an empirical description of the setting and normative expectations (a description of the community and what constitutes “good weaving”), which is the baseline for later data chapters and analysis, and the first data chapter (error mitigation strategies linked to social role).

I’ve also got a lot of earlier writing about motivation etc and I’ve been keeping ok notes of reading, which will be the basis of the introduction and literature review (I appreciate there will be significant re-work here).

I don’t think I have a problem writing, it’s focus and knowing what to pursue.

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MangoBand · 16/11/2024 21:48

Manchester uni academic phrasebank was a god send. You follow the prompts and suddenly you have a whole section. Would highly reccommend.

Also liked the thesis whisperer blog

Leskovac · 16/11/2024 21:50

Thank you, all 😊

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GrumpyPanda · 16/11/2024 22:10

What my supervisor had me do at roughly that stage was try and break the whole thing down into chapters. As in, do a 1-2 page summary for each chapter. That'll force you to work out a structure for your argument. Worst case, do two alternative versions if you can't quite settle on it yet.

PolterGoose · 16/11/2024 22:13

I needed lots of visual reminders and prompts to get me through that final push.

I had star charts (with actual sticker stars) to reward myself as I went along.

At one point I made a lucky dip for deciding which subsection to tackle next.

I had a list that included all the little things that get left to the end, so I could do them when I'd had enough of the main thesis work, so even if I wasn't writing chapters, I wasn't doing nothing.

I used a Pomodoro timer for a bit.

How long until you submit?

Leskovac · 16/11/2024 22:20

Love the idea of a lucky dip!

I’ve got ages in theory- the total part time registration period including writing up is seven years, and I am entering the fifth. I’ve got until September 27 if I need it, but the cost to myself and people around me is high, and my supervisor says I am close- I saved a lot of time not having to collect data-, so I would really value advice on how to do that final focussing and finishing.

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Leskovac · 16/11/2024 22:21

I go to campus one morning most weekends to work, and my children cry….

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Leskovac · 16/11/2024 22:22

Or at least object vigorously.

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Leskovac · 16/11/2024 22:23

I am also extremely conscious of conditions in the sector, and keeping my job, which is linked to being able to finish.

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Leskovac · 16/11/2024 22:38

Sorry, I realise I said “fifth and final year” above. I meant of active research as opposed to the formal writing up period. Our institutional regulations treat them differently.

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PolterGoose · 16/11/2024 22:38

The FB group 'PhD and early career researcher parents' might be worth joining.

In terms of how to finish, there aren't really any magic shortcuts, you really do just have to write stuff. For me, taking time to plan and break down tasks into the smallest possible chunks helped as I could fit them into smaller bits of time. I did most lit searching and editing on my phone as and when.

Stillnormal · 16/11/2024 22:40

This is all most terrifying to read indeed but I would say that if you are not fairly close and bound to win then I am right royally fucked if that helps? I might have over compensated somewhere early on for the academic wank bit but I am scared now and you’re bound to be fine

PolterGoose · 16/11/2024 22:42

Leskovac · 16/11/2024 22:38

Sorry, I realise I said “fifth and final year” above. I meant of active research as opposed to the formal writing up period. Our institutional regulations treat them differently.

Mine was 6 years including write up, but I ended up needing a 6 month extension as my viva was too near the end.

My experience very much reflected this...

Part time PhD - how to finish?