Help me decide about VS please

[ShouldIStayOrShouldIVSNow]

I know we have the other thread but wondering if anyone has any advice.

Me: Reader grade, but because I have a bit of a leadership role rather than going through standard promotion, teaching only, don't have a great publication record, social science area, quite niche. Two young kids currently in nursery, DH works, mainly from home (but occasionally looking commute into office), and earns a bit more, could survive on his salary.

I'm currently at an ex poly in dire straits financially. There's not many very local options - a Russell group that I applied for a sideways move at recently (also teaching only) but failed after interview so don't feel very employable. Other options would be over an hour commute away which would be difficult with nursery and then school drop off/collection next year for oldest DD. I wouldn't mind some time out of work to be with DCs but really worry about not ever being able to get back into a career which I've worked so hard for and do love despite current circumstances in the sector! I don't have any outside academia options really.

I've not been in job long. Stat redundancy I'd get a couple of weeks salary, VS I've been accepted at three months salary (and tax free so would really let me survive for five months plus). Union are certain that compulsory redundancies are next as VS take-up not been good enough.

Do I leave now and take the decent pay out, and just hope I get another job (at a mythical uni without financial problems?!). Or hang on as long as I can but likely get given compulsory redundancy for a much smaller pay off?

Any thoughts?

I’m wrestling with the same decision. If you’re SS are you sure you can’t move into another sector? Your research skills should be transferable. User research (UX)? Civil service? There’s a useful FB group called something like AltACUK - seem to be lots of people on there who’ve moved out of academia.

I’m in the humanities and I’m struggling to think what else I could do with the 20-odd years of working I have left. Main earner so I can’t afford to take a big drop in salary.

You would have options outside academia if you can find them - management and organisation etc. but would you enjoy it?

I'd recommend looking hard at the options beyond the university.

Thanks, it's a real niche so I don't feel like anything is really very transferable- I've been focusing on the teaching for so long and haven't had any headspace (or actual allocated hours) for research that I feel I'm totally out of the loop and don't really have anything valuable to take elsewhere. It's a good point though that I should have more of a proper think about it. That FB group sounds great, thank you.

I think also I just feel like I really don't want to give up on academia, despite how toxic and precarious it is -I ultimately really love the lecturer role, just want to be able to do it justice and have a bit of certainty that my role will survive!

The additional pressure off being a main earner must be tough, I hope you can find a good solution.

Thanks, that is possibly true, I feel though that I've taken a leadership role just because it was the only way I could progress - I actually hate the management stuff really though. I just want someone to pay me a decent wage for doing the bits I love, teaching and research, and be able to do this for as long as I choose without worrying about where my job will be in a few months - I know that's unrealistic though. I think I would have liked to be an academic about 40 years ago really, although in reality it would have been even harder as a woman probably!

Do you have any sense of how likely it is that you might face compulsory redundancy? My sense is that - if you do actually like your job and want to stay in academia - maybe hold on. I've also post-dc gone very teaching focussed and similarly don't feel I have much in the way of transferable skills - and I also hate management and frankly my admin skills are not stellar. 😫

I couldn't even have managed the commute I do now (which can be over 2 hours round on a bad day) when dd was young - but she's at uni and now it's doable. I struggled to keep my pitiful excuse for a career going while she was young but they do eventually grow up and 'keeping my hand in' has paid off. I frequently nearly just gave up on academia completely - but like you said - I just couldn't let it go (and I don't think I'm fit for anything else...). I was PT before though - so if being FT is too much with 2 young dc - that's a different issue.

PS The thought of taking 'a leadership role' make me feel ill!

I’m in the same boat and think I’ve decided not to apply for VR. I don’t think i would get made redundant as we don’t have many in our team at all. I need to chat to my line manager. Can you work out how likely you think compulsory redundancy would be? Sound your boss out? I think they generally have ideas where the cuts will be even if they can’t say.

Thanks. I'm glad it's not just me feeling like I don't have many skills that are useful on the outside!

That's a good perspective about just getting through the young DC years. Maybe I put too much pressure on myself. Part time is interesting, I'm not sure it's possible given the leadership role (and fear that salary would be reduced but not workload) but maybe that's me being cynical and might actually work better.

I really don't know about the likelihood of compulsory -they are definitely getting rid of a lot of people it seems. My area is not at risk in the current round, but it seems certain this isn't the end. @CormorantStrikesBack my boss has been completely tight lipped -she's quite senior so may well know but she has insistently not said anything at all or giving hints. I feel like the fact that they've agreed my VR means they have decided I'm dispensible!

I feel like I would eventually get a job doing something, but then whether I'll regret having left when I get something else (even with academia) that is worse pay/less senior/big commute etc. But equally I might just as much regret turning down VS now and being told to go in a few weeks and losing out on the significantly increased money.

I do think three months is a shit package.

whats the next stage after VS? Isn’t there normally a voluntary redundancy stage if needed after VS and the package would be the same? Compulsary comes next? That’s what’s happening with my place anyway. So think I’m going to sit tight and see if they have enough at VS stage or if they go to VR and will evaluate again then. I have sounded my boss out and he thinks it’s unlikely I’ll be made compulsory redundant but usual caveats of no guarantee.

I don't want to derail your thread OP but does anyone know the difference between Voluntary Severance and Voluntary Redundancy? Are they different?

Ah yes. So I went to a meeting today and this was discussed. There is a difference. So VS is the first step, then if not enough people go for it next step is voluntary redundancy. Apparently for a lot of people the VR package will be better than the VS package. No details of what it will be yet….but you get more months pay the longer you’ve worked there. So maybe if you’ve only worked 2 years it won’t be any better but if you’ve worked ten then it will be.

Thank you @CormorantStrikesBack These meetings all feel like you are being expected to make life changing decisions based on very scant information. It's almost like being on a gameshow where you keep holding out for the bigger or better prize 😏 The other variable is that we don't actually know which departments/teams actually need to lose staff, so are they also using this process to shed staff and then they will regroup with what's left? 🤷‍♀️ Either staying or going aren't that attractive as I'm sure the heavy workload will just increase as staff leave. What a strange situation to be in.

I think this must vary. We've been told at the end of last week that we're moving to compulsory now and the payout is statutory. My dept isn't in this first bit but could well be in the next stages as we're not looking great for recruitment.

So we're definitely just doing VS and then compulsory.

3 months isn't life changing, no, but it's a lot better than two weeks.

So I guess it's the decision between
A) take the VS, possibly have some paid time off with the kids, maybe use some of it to do some writing and make myself more employable. Hopefully get another job but likely to be less convenient or lower grade.
B) don't take it: either get made redundant in a few weeks just with the two weeks pay, get another job as above. Or survive the compulsory rounds and manage to stay at the most convenient place, but possibly be downgraded/in a situation where everyone is overworked and low morale at first. But maybe we'll come through it?

It's just so hard to tell, if I was guaranteed to keep my job I'd stay, if I was offered another amazing job I'd go. I can't work out if it will be a heads down for a couple of years situation or if there's going to be a proper shake-up, maybe with my place going bankrupt/having to merge with somewhere else to survive.

This is totally it, it very much feels like stick with the door you've opened or switch, but oh by the way maybe a trapdoor will open beneath you at some point or a bucket of slime will be unloaded on your head.

I think in lots of ways I wouldn't mind having a career break for a year or so, but it's the never being able to get back into academia that worries me.

How long have you been in post?

echoing others - if you need to leap, leap now. If you don’t want to, sit tight.

my uni has been through aooooo many rounds of VR, VS, something called ‘mutually agreed resignation’…

It's great they keep thinking up new names for getting rid of us!

I've been here two years, was really pleased when the job came back as previously I'd been commuting a long way.

It’s all so shit. I’m confident I won’t be made redundant as I’m in such a small team. The programme couldn’t run with any fewer staff.

But how much admin / deputy head of school stuff/admissions, etc will we have to pick up if there are redundancies in other areas. Not sure it’s a job I want to remain in.

plus the overhanging threat that possibly the university could go bankrupt

I don't think there is typically a higher-paying-out voluntary redundancy round after voluntary severance? At least, as far as I'm aware, it's usually voluntary severance (or 'enhanced voluntary severance' at my place) to get as many people to volunteer as possible. With potential (likely) compulsory redundancies (with a lower pay out) afterwards.

It depends on what else there is local to you. My DH is working at an ex-poly uni that is currently undergoing VS. It's very rural, and outside the NHS or FE, you'd struggle to find equivalent grade / pay jobs in the local area. I'm hoping that you're at a different one with more prospects.

I've turned it down. I really like my current job and so it seems crazy to voluntarily give it up. I might be made to give it up in a few weeks, but I think I'd regret being the one to make the decision to go.

Just got to cross my fingers that I survive the next few months/years now!