Where is GOOD to be an academic?

[CatLady476]

I was having this conversation with an ECR colleague recently. We agreed UK HE was a dumpster fire. We were then mulling where in the world might be good to be an academic? Defined as decent salary, job security, fair opportunity for career advancement, not overworked and stressed off your box. Answers on the back of a post card?

Nowhere. France or Germany if you get one of the few permanent state funded posts, perhaps. As a scientist, it’s Britain or the US for funding really. Australia and Canada have basically given up funding science. Germany has good funding but you are only allowed to be a postdoc for a few years then are made to give up, so only a. Select chosen few make it to permanent.

If you are in a rich university in the UK I think the job is as good as it’s going to get bar going to the US (which I would never do)

Friends who are academics in Mexico are happy with their careers, and say they have a good work/life balance, hard-working and engaged students, good pay and benefits.

great thread@CatLady476 watching with interest... ECR here wanting to leave the UK to anywhere that will have me 😂- it's the poor student and staff morale getting me down (including myself in this!)

@Bunnyhair interesting... do your friends teach in Spanish only?

@PinkMildred do you mean RG unis by this? More and more of my friends in permanent jobs in RG unis are under redundancy measures atm - doesn't feel like anywhere/anyone is safe atm...

Yes, they teach only in Spanish. But they're the only academics I know who are happy with their working conditions. 😕

@Bunnyhair thank you! Really wish I spoke another language 😫

Not all RG are like this , no, but some of them are. Eg I have friends at Edinburgh, Glasgow, Sheffield, UCL, Exeter. They all seem happy with their lot (they are all science faculty if that makes a difference)

the french teaching hour allocations are quite high, but their PI research-only roles look excellent. Friends in these roles seem happy with their lot...

The science thing does make a difference based on family and friends in RG academia.

It is a disastrous time to be teaching in the arts. The student quality has dropped so significantly and the mental health accommodations required are impossible.

yes I think you are right. Eg my place (RG but not old) is recruiting 10 new permanent lecturers now to our school. But the humanities have job cuts.

Ahh yes the sci/humanities divide explains it. Just curious, where do the social-sciences sit in this?

In the middle but sliding downhill towards humanities. Sorry to say but I have been astonished by the lack of rigour and the endless navel-gazing obsession with identities and perceived victimhood. I have limited experience myself (but was unimpressed) but close friends and family have.

It's not helped by the fact that universities are under so much financial pressure and are importing overseas students by the plane load.

Interesting thoughts all. Any Irish or Ozzie colleagues here to tell us what it's like where they are?

I'm in Scandinavia and it's not perfect, but I'm quite happy. The work-life balance is generally good, it's rare to see colleagues in the office after 5pm. Colleagues with kids benefit from the extensive parental leave, flexible working/reduced hours options. There is no REF, as long as I publish in half-decent journals everyone is happy.

At the same time, the Norwegian government is reducing the science budget, the Swedish government has stopped all funding for development/global south research.

Once you have a permanent job it's a good deal, but getting one can be challenging. Recent changes mean you can generally only apply for assistant professor jobs if you're within 7 year sof finishing your PhD (sometimes 5 years). Many of my ECR colleagues are increasingly stressed about the lack of permanent opportunities, but also by the growing competition for jobs. I think it's partly that Scandinavian academia was quite insular until recently, meaning it was relatively easy to get a permanent job, as there was limited competition. Now ECRs here suddenly have to compete with international candidates (at least in the bigger/more international universities) and are losing out.

Finally, pay progression is fairly low. Unlike the UK where PhDs earn next to nothing and professors can earn 6 figure salaries, Scandinavian pay scales tend to be more compressed, so PhDs here earn much more than their UK equivalents but professors will earn less.

I'm in the social sciences btw.

This is all very useful - I'd like to at least direct my PhDs appropriately...

I know someone in humanities at Exeter and they're living the dream. Damn all teaching, no teaching at all in the summer term, very incentivised to bring in funding so there are good promotion opportunities. Nobody lives there, but commutes from somewhere else which can make finding someone to go for a pint with in the evening a little tricky, that's all. There is little collegiality. People seem to use it to advance their careers and then go on somewhere else as soon as they hit their target salary/rank, but if you like that part of the country and you're into the outdoors, there is no reason to leave.

The person I know has primary school aged kids and has been able to block their teaching, so no teaching at all two days a week, one or two overnights a week depending on that week's teaching, and they are back in their non-Exeter city to have dinner with their kids on Fridays. They're getting loads of research done, and their department is young and friendly, so everyone is quite enthusiastic.

I wouldn't want that commute myself, but if you lived in somewhere like Bristol it would be pretty easy.

Don't know much about Ireland (mentioned above) but the cost of living is SO HIGH that those juicy salaries you see on jobs.ac.uk don't actually convert to a particularly decadent lifestyle, sadly.

I would say that Norway is a pretty good deal. Busy, but not excessively so. Time for research as well as teaching, and students are fairly motivated. Funding is available, or at least in my research field. However, things are changing here too. It is harder to get a permanent position than previously and the competition has increased massively. We get huge numbers of applicants especially from the UK and US for positions that would have only had nationally based applicants for 7-8 years ago. Also applicants who are very over-qualified for the positions. I think it is a sign of how bad things are in those countries now.

Ireland is definitely better than the UK but still not great. More and more admin being piled on us. Harder and harder to get promoted. They keep throwing in extra hoops you have to jump through. Students are less and less engaged and we're expected to bend over backwards to progress them. Salaries are decent enough but housing in the cities is quite expensive and difficult to find.

Pardon my ignorance but what, exactly, does an academic role mean in this capacity?

I don’t quite understand what you mean here. Which capacity?

I have to say, those who I know well, inc. my partner, who have permanent jobs in mid-tier universities in the UK have a pretty good set up. One thing the people who I'm thinking of have in common - which perhaps isn't the norm - is they are either basically full time research (as they are always well funded), or full time teaching only. I also love my ECR position, but it isn't permanent. I think we have much better job conditions than basically everyone I know working outside academia. And the permanent job situation in the UK is far better than much of Europe - although job conditions in Europe can be better if you manage to actually get one from what I understand. I don't always recognise the horror stories I see on here.

This is social sciences, inc. applied social sciences - which might be marginally more secure than humanities.

However, it looks like things are getting worse for everyone - (just came off the redundancies thread) - so am far from complacent.