Stay or jump ship?

[Elpel]

I recently finished my PhD (Social Sciences) and feel like I lost my identity somewhere along the way. I've started applying to post-docs and fixed terms jobs, but I've found myself questioning more and more if I want to commit another couple of years before I get a permanent role (not guaranteed, of course). I'm early 30s and increasingly aware of friends with houses, children and pets. It makes me sad to think that it might be another good couple of years of moving & moving between fixed-term contracts till I might get lucky enough to get a permanent job and can buy a house. I also look at my friends and there's part of me that would just love to have a job where I can switch off at 5pm and have weekends and an actual life!

I'm doubting whether I actually want a future in academia badly enough to put up with the instability. I've been encouraged to continue by my supervisors who really believe me which is lovely and I've done everything I can in terms of working on projects, conferences and publishing papers so they are optimistic. But other academics I've worked with and respect have advised me that if they had their time again, they wouldn't go into academia today. I can't think of an academic I know who is actually happy to be honest and doesn't seem to be collapsing with stress. And these are people with permanent posts so dreading to think what another few years of precarity and fixed term contracts would feel like!!

TLDR: finished PhD and feeling lost. Wondering if I ought to jump ship now!

If anyone else is in the same boat and feeling the same, sending lots of hugs and support your way.

I worked in academia for approx. five years after my PhD and worked up to Associate Prof. The difference between doing my PhD and then working in academia was huge. Although there were some good points, it was exhausting and I always had a long list of tasks to do. The lack of admin support was a continuous theme throughout my time in academia. I did gain a lot from the experience but it was stressful.
The other thing I thought about when thinking about whether to leave is: "what is the trajectory of academia?" and I couldn't see many reasons to think it would get better to work in over the coming years.
My new role outside academia is great. I'm appreciated by the team I'm in and, in some ways actually use my expertise more than I did when I was in academia (because there was so much admin to do). I almost felt deskilled when I was there.
@Elpel I'd recommend leaving after your PhD. Think of a role that you want eventually and get experience in that field.

Thanks so much @tiredPL and that is exactly my worry - it doesn't look like it gets easier the further you go in academia. I've just realised that all the arguments about autonomy and flexibility seem like false logic, when I find myself working all time and saying yes to things I don't want to do. I also don't feel intellectually stretched and the mental health crisis (from staff and students) makes me feel suffocated and burnt-out.

Can I ask what area you work in now @tiredPL ? I'm looking at policy/public research roles but worry about how I will get my foot in the door. My back-up plan was return to HE professional services where I worked before but we're seeing an exodus of staff there too who are leaving because of burnout...

I got my PhD in 2009 and have been in my post since then. I'm very lucky to have my position (humanities) but I'm stuck at SL with little prospect of progression (woman of a certain age with primary aged children). Increasingly I don't see a future for my discipline (thanks Tories) or HE as it currently exists in the UK, or indeed for myself at my university. For the past 15 years I've lived with the constant sense that I'm only one more restructure away from losing my job. And it's a very strange thing to do a job that you're pretty good at but at the same time know that if you lost it you have virtually zero chance of finding another one (due to the scarcity of jobs).

There is so much wrong with academia and how it makes us value ourselves. I like a lot about my job (mostly the flexibility, and also my lovely colleagues) and I really don't know if I'd do it all again. But there's no way in hell I'd start out now in the current climate.

With a PhD in the social sciences you will have many wonderful transferrable skills. I would use them to get a job in a sector where you have much more control over your career trajectory. So much of our 'success' is out of our hands and that really gradually, but very effectively, saps your sense of self-worth.

I totally agree with what you say about flexibility @Elpel . Academia might have once been the most flexible of jobs you could get but now there are flexible jobs in lots of sectors. Also, is academia really very flexible if you have to work very long hours? Not much of a selling point to say you can choose which ever 50 hours a week you want!

There are areas like tech that you could go into (user research) or social research in the civil service. Also, have you thought about entrepreneurship? I overlooked it but, really, you will have experience of thinking in an original way from your PhD.

I'm really sorry you've been feeling that way for so long @Flockameanie Given the state of HE and political landscape, I know so many in permanent posts who feel the same, and it's just not right. The government's failure to invest in the Humanities properly is so short-sighted. Maybe with a new gov on the horizon, things might get better, but it does feel like HE is ready to implode at the moment...

And you hit the nail on the head in terms of not having control - it's like every bid/grant/job application/paper is a gamble and it almost becomes addictive trying to see if you can pull it off or waiting for your time to eventually come. It's bizarre to think that you can work so hard and put in all the hours and more, but ultimately it's sheer luck and connections - completely the opposite to what we tell young people about meritocracy and hard work paying off!

@tiredPL I know what you mean! It feels a bit like the job/academia I'm striving for doesn't exist (anymore?). There's the romanticised idea of what you want it to look like and then the brutal reality😅I think I'm mourning this more than anything...

And thanks for the suggestions - I was just thinking the other day that starting a business would make total sense as there's a lot of crossover - you get a sense of autonomy and flexibility with it, and in order to do a PhD, you've got to be pretty resilient and committed to a project through thick and thin... I like the idea of user research too and would be curious to see what it's like in reality.

I was in your position this time last year- had worked in academia about 6 years and finally finished staff phd. I made the leap away (evaluation in a public policy consultancy) a few months ago and I’m really glad. Pros:

• slightly better pay
• way quicker opportunities for progression
• I never feel guilty about not working weekends, because there’s nothing hanging over me. This Christmas was my most relaxing ever
• expectations are really clear, if someone asks you to do some extra work, you ask them how long it will take and just say no if there’s no time
• my expertise seems way more valued because I’m working in a multi-disciplinary team rather than everyone in the team being an expert in the same thing!
• more variety of work which keeps things interesting
• more good responsibility (getting to make the final call on research design) and less bad responsibility (having to pick up the pieces after spending months on the PI’s shitty idea only for it to be panned by reviewers)
• permanent job!!! No applying for money and scrabbling around for new jobs, no having to plan getting pregnant (just about to start TTC) around contract length

Cons:

• less annual leave, even though I’ve bought extra
• very little sick pay
• while it is quite flexible, they are stricter on coming into the office at least twice a week (on the plus side, these leads to a good working culture where you actually get to know your colleagues, so I’m pro it) and while people may have a couple of afternoons a week they are unavailable doing school/nursery pick ups, you can’t choose your hours in the same way as academia
• more time pressure, things have to be turned around very fast, often scrabbling around for people to staff projects when others are sick/on holiday because there’s no extra room in the system
• less time for self indulgently reading/learning about things: my time at work is more intense, always actively doing stuff rather than passively thinking

That's really helpful, thank you! @New2024newname Really glad you're enjoying your role and that the pros largely outweigh the cons - it's so nice to have actual security, time off and be valued!

Can I ask how you got into your role? Did you jump straight from your PhD or have to get further experience/qualifications? It sounds like my ideal job, but I'm not sure how to get my foot in the door. I've got some commissioned qual research/eval experience outside of academia, but I'd be happy to start at an entry position and work my way up.

Your post has reminded me that I also need to start looking at the Civil Service, but I remember scare stories from my UG friends about the application process/tests and it's always terrified me 😂

I'm lucky enough to have permanent position but if I had my time again I'd have jumped ship to civil service social research work. I work ridiculous hours, it's never enough and I am unlikely to get to professor before retirement as I try to actually see my DC.

Glad to help :) just to clarify, I work for a private consultancy whose main client is government, so conditions are probably a little different to working in the civil service itself. I too never actually ended up applying for any cs roles because the process seemed ridiculously complicated. Hopefully someone else will come along who can advise on that, because like others I think a cs research job would be nice- I’d potentially try to move in the future.

Because I did my PhD as staff, I had quite a lot of separate academic experience in evaluation, which allowed me to get in at a mid-level role. I would try to structure your CV to highlight your experience as ‘real work’, for e.g. if you were also employed as a research assistant on your PhD project- I think those outside academia otherwise don’t recognise the value of the experience you’ve got as part of your PhD. Still worth highlighting even if you’re going for entry level roles, it will distinguish you from other candidates. You’d be a very good candidate for entry level roles in my org with a PhD and some experience, and potentially mid level roles too.

Thank you, that's really helpful! @New2024newname Really glad to hear that I've got a chance! :) I'm currently rewriting my CV to tone down the academic-specific stuff like papers and conferences and play up my other experience. I worked throughout my PhD on various projects inside and outside of academia and am glad I did now as I'm hoping all of that will give me more leverage.

And I've heard once you get into the CS, it's great as you can just keep moving around within it - fingers crossed someone can help advise us on the cumbersome application process😂

I think if you're interested in CS best to do a separate post. There are also tons of posts already on here about CS application processes, etc. I looked into it a few years ago, but ultimately ruled it out because it would entail quite a big pay cut for me (although the pension is absolutely great - better than the USS).

I didn't finish my PhD til I was older than you are and I did feel awful facing short-term contracts at that age. For whatever reason, I stuck it out and ended up with a permanent job, but I agree there are no guarantees. Just to provide a different perspective, the reasons I like staying in academia are that I found it hard to work in the private sector on things I had no interest in, and rightly or wrongly, I only work on things I am very very interested in in my current job. I don't work excessive hours either and never have.

I don't think being an early-career academic is easy at all, it's definitely harder than before, in terms of what's required for probation and promotion. The system is very bureaucratic and increasingly so. The only thing is- so are most of the professional jobs my friends and colleagues have, I don't know anyone that has stayed and loved teaching, or law, for example. Civil service has some great opportunities and I know of several bright motivated grads who have done fast track.

I just wanted to provide a different perspective- being a teacher also used to be much easier for the money, my parents strolled home at between 3 and 4pm. It's not like that now, and that's common across the sectors. I nearly jumped ship to a different sector, but then the entire sector had redundances, very heavy ones.

There's no perfect career path- I'd see what's out there, apply for some jobs and see what fits your skills and interests, and if in a year or two you think differently, jump back in, it may be worth keeping your name on those papers for now.

Thanks Fluffy, it's really helpful to have another perspective. It's hard to walk when away when you're been gearing up to something for so long so definitely thinking it all through and keeping doors open. I think doing the PhD made me realise that there are parts of of the job that I don't enjoy (mainly teaching, marking). I love the research and writing but there are many jobs where I can use those skills outside of academia, so will need to find the right one that suits me!

I also think I'm realising that academia is just not good for my mental health - I've been trying to unravel exactly why, but suspect it's a combination of different factors...

And yes, I agree - there's no such thing as an easy job!!

Academia can be great for some but of course there is no guarantee. If you're willing to give it a go, I'd advise to set a deadline by which point you decide it's time to let go the dream if it hasn't worked out (for e.g. you don't have a permanent job by [year]). I can think of so many colleagues who went from fixed term to fixed term post, having to move in the process, etc for years and that led nowhere. Some decided it was time to call quits and left for CS/private sector/etc (bringing with them their HE experience) and it worked out fine for them.

For what it's worth, I work in academia and I really enjoy it but I'm lucky to have very good working conditions, which isn't the norm.

It should say 'year'. No idea what this bottle is!

Thanks Lunchbox - setting a deadline is part of my plan. I've seen friends struggle for years piecing together contract work and moving every year, and it's not nice.

Really glad you're in a nice place where the conditions are good! Staff and student morale has been really low and I just feel like I'm walking on eggshells when teaching and marking because of difficult students, and it's been wearing me down. I don't really like the idea of signing up for more of that for the long-term.

All I can do now is to get my ducks in a row and plan for all possibilities and try and open as many doors as possible!