PhD as a middle aged parent?

[Tigertealeaves]

I'm a woman in my 40s with a partner and young child.

I was a teacher for many years, passionate about my subject but became depressed by the reality of schools. I was previously very academic and have good qualifications. Did an MA in early 20s but it was the wrong choice - a bit of a tangent that didn't work out, and that disheartened me. I finished it, though. I'm currently doing a fixed term job in HE and am fantasising about having another go at academia, basically. I feel I've underachieved, not specialised enough, and have spent much more time caring for my students' and employees' growth and development than my own.

I'm hoping this route would stop me doing variations on the same job for the next 2-3 decades with little progression, and might open up teaching at HE level. I am worried it could feel very detached though, after so long being in the thick of it. I like theory but also love 'doing'.

I'm posting this in the hope that anyone who's done doctoral research themselves (or supervises it) can give me a reality check about whether I'm a viable candidate and whether it is worth it at my stage in life.

Your age doesn't matter - in 3-5 years you'll be the same age with or without a PhD. It's irrelevant.
The only things to think about are

1. Do you enjoy research and libraries and writing things up alone.
2. Do you want to stay in the world of academia ie being a uni researcher and teacher as your career?

If the answers to both of these is yes then you can do a PhD. There might also be other things to try doing like writing a book or a blog about books or fiction or further education lecturing.

Ps if you want another child you won't have mat leave pay is that ok?

I am an academic and supervise PhDs. I think a lot depends on your subject area. In my subject area it is extremely hard to get funding for a PhD and even harder to get a permanent job afterwards. Most of our students are self-funded and only a tiny number end up working as researchers/lecturers. I always tell potential PhD students only to do it for the sake of the PhD, as any employment post-PhD is a long shot.

If you DO get research council funding, maternity leave and sick pay is now paid, for what it's worth.

I started my PhD in my mid thirties and I have had several mature PhD students in the years since. It is very common in my subject for people to want to study it after having had other careers. I have had students who were teachers, doctors, dentists, research scientists, pharmacists, surveyors, accountants, consultants etc.

And quite a a few do get jobs in the field if they want to - or they retire and continue to be involved on a voluntary basis but again as @myphoneisbroken says - if you do decide to do one, pick something you adore/are fascinated by as otherwise it is a long often lonely slog.

Best thing I ever did though - I got a fully funded studentship from the NERC and haven't looked back!

I worked in HE for many years… I’d say (from observance, not experience), PhDs are long and sometimes very lonely slogs and tests of stamina. I wouldn’t set out on one unless I was really, really sure that’s what I wanted to do…

What subject, OP. French? English? History?

Agree with pps.

Ultimately "the heart wants what the heart wants" and no-one should stop you if you want that Dr title!

BUT there is a lot of weird behaviour, toxicity, nepotism...

I think some people go in thinking "I love this topic and I'm bright enough and I've dealt with bullshit and I work hard so I'll be fine" and get very burnt.

It really isn't a "step up" in terms of refinement and intellectualism if you've already had a graduate level job. It's just more paperwork and corporate bullshit and begging for money.

The people can be "interesting" - the class and money and social and racial dynamics are there, and even stronger than at undergrad level.

Just because you're enrolled on the same course as someone, or at the same institution, doesn't mean they will want you in their networks if they feel your face doesnt fit.

I liked @Unexpectedlysinglemum 's suggestion of "finding another way to express yourself" career wise that actually makes you money as well. EdTech maybe? Online seems the way all the cool kids are headed.

Maybe explore distance learning, or finding and developing an independent passion project you can work on part-time and remotely? That might be turned into a thesis. You can attend conferences as an independent scholar, too.

Alongside something else to make money.

I wouldn't stake your finances and direction and 100% gamble on a PhD being the vehicle that gives you an automatic step-up career wise.

I began a social sciences PhD not long before I turned 45 and actually appear to be one of the younger researchers in my intake. I am now about half-way through.

A lot of people will try to scare you off but it is feasible, especially part-time. You don't have to be 'doctoral level' on Day 1 of your PhD - you grow and develop as you go through the process of research methods training and refining your proposal. I try not to let myself be daunted by thinking about the whole PhD and just focus on what I am actually doing at any one point in time. Perhaps one day it will rear up and bite me on the bum, but I have got this far without any major crises of confidence!

However, I would say that I am doing the PhD without any expectation of an academic career. I work in another sector. A lot of my fellow researchers are already building up teaching/research experience in the department but it is already fairly clear that there wouldn't be a permanent lecturing job for everyone who might want one.

If you're already working in an academic role and the uni will give a staff fee waiver and let you do it part time, I'd snatch their hand off.
You sound as though you'd like to be studying again, and doing a doctorate is apparently 10% being brainy enough and 90% being stubborn and sticking at it! So I'd be looking to apply even if I had to pay my own way.
Being a doctoral student will also help if you need to apply for permanent academic roles.

Thanks all - this is enormously helpful. I think I need to examine my own motivations a bit.

My subject is in the Arts, but my interest is around the teaching/pedagogy of it and who has access, which is where I hoped there might be some possibility of funding. I have seen funded PhD studentships in my subject occasionally, although they had to align with the research interests of a particular university of course.

I think the part I'm maybe naive about is that there could be some of the same frustrations with HE teaching as with secondary anyway. The admin and politics was horrific there. But I loved loved loved teaching A Level.

I definitely don't want more kids and don't want to go back to schools. My current role is brilliant but fixed term and has pretty much zero progression. Maybe a "passion project" is the way to go if not the PhD. I wanted to ask anonymously here because I'd be embarrassed to mention the idea to anyone at work. I feel a little bit that because I'm not on teaching staff, I'm not seen as being on their level. Some of the things we engage people to do, I could do, but I'm not in the right "box" to be taken seriously because of my job title and previous career background. So, thank you for the kind responses.

Well, that sounds like a pretty good topic for a PhD in Education - have you looked at the ESRC doctoral training consortia? They give out research studentships on a 1+3 or equivalent part-time basis. Also, even if you start on a self-funded basis there is the possibility of getting funding part-way through but you would probably need to be at an institution that is part of one of the consortia.

I am a little uneasy at the idea of a 'passion project' being easier to undertake. That would be totally unstructured, whereas at least with a PhD you have a supervisor and the university structures around you. Also projects come and go, tending to fall away when you can no longer put time into it, whereas a PhD is forever!

Identifying or approaching a supervisor for a preliminary conversation would be a good next step.

You should absolutely do the PhD if you can get funding, and have the time, stamina and interest. But as a passion project. I would not do it in the expectation of a job in academia. I'm an academic in the humanities, and we are brutally clear with our prospective doctoral candidates that they should not start a doctorate in the hope of a career in academia.

I have just published a co-edited book where two of the four editors and four of the twelve essay contributors have doctorates,, have had post-doctoral positions, and do high-quality research in their free time, but don't have academic jobs, despite being extremely good, well-connected researchers with strong publication records, teaching experience who have been prepared to move around for jobs.

I agree with 90% is effort and keeping going when no-one but you cares about your research area

part-time will keep you sane and be less of a financial hit. Took me 6 years but glad I bothered now I’m out the other side

Could you do a part time PhD alongside your job? If you're able to amalgamate it with your job it helps to get work completed too.
Does your HE setting advertise grants for people wanting to do phd's? Usually there fees, stipend and a small consumables contribution? I'm in science so there's quite a lot available, my own was pharma funded, but imagine it's more difficult in arts

I am quite a senior lecturer but don't have a phd. At my university, the increase in pay isn't that big enough to justify doing a phd as it is a long, arduous process and you have to REALLY want to do it. I have little interest in research, it's the teaching side I love and I'd willingly take on a heftier teaching timetable and sacrifice research hours.

If your only reason for wanting to do the doctorate is to teach in HE, look at other routes.

I got my job as my practical experience makes me an expert in the field and I was already an experienced teacher. From there I applied for promotion and worked my way up to course leader, with only an MA and FHEA.

I still toy with the idea of phd but I wouldn't be willing to take a pay cut. If it was fully funded, I could keep my current job role and a condition of my employment, that would be different.

There are all sorts of routes into HE teaching and even doctorates that can be obtained in less conventional ways.

Your age isn't a barrier though. Only one of my colleagues/friends had a phd before 35. I know many people doing them in 40s and 50s.

I did a passion project phd, with funding, in my 50s, and am now doing a postdoc at another institution. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, but also really rewarding. I was very lucky to get funding, which was only possible because I paid for a masters first and had a cracking supervisor who helped me. And I was lucky to have a niche area of my own to study, and I am now precarious and insecure. But I’m still glad I did it! So I’d definitely say go for it if you really want to, but be prepared for it to take over your life for a looong time!

I'll also say, that I've spent most of the last 10 years on very precarious contracts. Even now, I don't know if I'll have a job at my current university this time next year. Courses, especially arts courses, get scrapped with next to no notice. It's hard to get permanent contracts. I've never actually had a permanent contract in a university! I'm constantly on the eye out for opportunities and currently work two jobs...one for the university, one self employed doing tutoring and I have a passive side hustle too. I'm in the process of lining up a third job in education, just in case my contract is not renewed at the end of this academic year.

Having a phd wouldn't actually change any of this, personally. I can't move out of the area, if I could then it might be worth it to become a professor (but I don't really want that!).

Teaching in schools and colleges is definitely more secure and it's good to know you can always return to it if you have to.

@All2Well can you get a PhD on your research papers or are you just the teaching side of HEI?

Thank you again to all who have replied. I am really new to HE and just trying to figure out whether/where I could fit. Separately, I do feel there are parts of my brain I no longer exercise enough and that life has become a struggle against boredom. I have a HUGE amount of energy and commitment when I'm inspired, but I need a goal of some sort. Maybe this one is a bit large, or isn't right, I'm not sure yet but really valuing all the food for thought.

Ironically I probably do have better permanent employment prospects in my current type of role than I would as a lecturer. But what I do in the institution is in a rather niche little corner, and the funding is small potatoes so progression would be limited for me. And to be honest the pay is not great. Teaching was better (but not worth it on the mental health and family life front).

My contract will end next summer whatever happens, and I'll have to decide "what next" in the next 6 months.

@All2Well I think that's it... you are an expert through practical experience, but I don't feel I am. I know a lot and have considerable skills but it's all quite broad. I have never really specialised as I was so anxious to earn my keep and give something to society, so I just slogged away in often very challenging and frustrating schools. I feel that I'd need to learn more to be a true authority on anything.

I’m a phd student in my 40s - as others have said, I think you need to be in it for the sake of it rather than as a route to an academic career - there are a lot lot of younger candidates participating in the busyness Olympics and frankly it looks soul destroying and exhausting. Having said that, if you’re doing a subject you love I think it’s the biggest privilege ever - being able to write your own research/job for 3 years is amazing. Stressful definitely sometimes and lonely from time to time but absolutely worth it (so far, anyway! Am second year). Do some research to see who you might like to ask to supervise you and go and talk to them - they know the best grants and funding and have some of the inside knowledge you’ll need to make your decision. You definitely can do it - it’s whether it’s right for you you need to work out. Good luck!

If you are looking to do an arts subject there are two routes for funding through the AHRC as well - a student -led route where the student comes up with a project in discussion with a supervisor and one where the supervisor advertises a project they have already got funding for ( these are currently being advertised).

Both of these can be collaborative with a non-HE partner/supervisor which might be something you could explore to keep one foot in the outside world as it were as well as a possible route into a future career and doing a piece os research that has practical application.

https://www.ukri.org/what-we-do/developing-people-and-skills/ahrc/training-and-support-before-the-future-doctoral-provision-programme/collaborative-doctoral-partnerships-cdp/

I became a middle-aged mother during a PhD in my early 40s (interdisciplinary topic with funding - couldn't have managed without). For over a decade after that - I lived a parallel life to @All2Well with several jobs on the go including both uni and 6th form teaching as well as tutoring. Not being able to move due to family commitments was a major obstacle to getting jobs. I have no regrets - but it has been tough and not how I would ideally plan, i.e. I would prefer if I had at least done either the PhD or the baby earlier. I have definitely mommy-tracked big time.

Now I have just one FT uni contract - but worry what will happen if not renewed and I have to try and pick up all the PT bitty jobs again. I dithered about just committing to 6th form teaching - it's good to have that as a plan B. I have fantasies about writing a tome in my retirement (if I can ever afford to retire....).

Does sound like a reasonable topic area if you can get support and make the money work - do you need funding or could you go PT self-funded? (It's a long old road PT though and funding does keep you on track and accountable.) As long as you are OK if it doesn't lead to a related job (it might - but don't count on it) then if you are enthusiastic go for it.

PS - many HE unis have their own competitive domestic research awards that tend to go to projects that don't easily fall into the remit of the major external funders like AHRC or ESRC - that's how I got mine. You'd need a supervisor at that institution to support your application.

Be aware that the deadlines for research council studentships for 24/25 are coming up really soon. Of course there may well be other funded PhDs advertised in the course of the spring.

I agree with a PP that your research area feels like it fits better in Education/ESRC funded than in an Arts department.

@Acinonyx2 hmm. I have some sources of P/T income and some savings, but self funded would be tricky to be honest. Another concern is that we need to move house in the next few years and it could create problems in terms of mortgages (though we wouldn't need a huge one). Not even sure if PhD funding would be counted as income in that sense??

I also hear what you said about lack of mobility due to family. As a child we moved around a fair few times as dad was in a specialism with gold dust jobs. My partner definitely wouldn't be upping sticks for me like that. I could wait until no kids in the house - that will be 15 years :-/ but I guess if it's mainly a thing to do for the love of it, then there is no urgency per se.

@myphoneisbroken and PP, thank you for the advice re: education focus. I think as a very experienced teacher who has 'climbed the ladder' in schools somewhat I'd probably taken more seriously there than in my actual artform. (That was a bit depressing to type but is true! It is, to be fair, where I've put most of my time and energy.)