Making professor in your 50s

[unbeliebable]

I just had the most depressing conversation with a (male) professor who described how sad it was that so many women make professor in their 50s just when they are approaching the end of their career. If I ever make professor, it will be in my 50s, and I guess as I am approaching the end of my career. It IS depressing. What do other people think about this? Is it also mildly embarrassing? What do we all think about people who languish at SL for many years (that's me)! Are they/we slightly pitied? Interested in opinions as I desperately consider what other jobs I could do ...

University retirement is 67! Not the end of your career but an important phase. Being at the top of your game in your 50s is a great place to be and better then the alternative, permanently SL. I know so many very impressive senior women in this age group, they are role models and leaders in so many ways. In my experience, they are respected and in demand.
Sounds like a bit of a knobbish remark from your male colleague.

I think that progression to Professor is harder now. Of course it takes longer.

When I look at the older Professors at my place (I think there’s only one younger than me and he’s single and childless), not all have a string of books (or only one and that after promotion to Chair), some don’t have PhDs, a couple have the Oxbridge MA and nothing else. These days that wouldn’t get you a lectureship. Also it used to be possible to get promoted from SL to Prof but these days you have to get promoted to Reader and then Chair (at least in my institution).

That is one way of looking at it but I would say it suggests the pinnacle of an academic career and that it is good that this can be in your 50s.

Many women carry the brunt of family life through their 30s/40s so are suddenly freed in their 50s to concentrate on one aspect of their lives. It's a great time to take a big step professionally, when you can not only do the role justice but enjoy it more without all the personal time management required of the previous decades.
Your male colleague doesn't see it because he never had that level of responsibility elsewhere.

I don’t understand this. It’s the peak - ten years of that is great. Then happy retirement.

average age for prof in my place (RG science) is 45-55

Thanks everybody. It’s reassuring to hear this. I am 50 - no idea if he realised that when we were talking. It was rather a classic convo where he told me quite a lot about what he was working on (predominantly with other men) and I sort of just listened. I wish I’d asked him now why he doesn’t ask some of those sad women to work with him on some of those projects but I didn’t.

SL is still considered the "standard" career grade isn't it? And there's no fixed retirement age, so ...

But his comment just shows how much the working world is organised around the male body and the male life pattern. Because they're not spending in their late 20s & early 30s juggling pregnancy, childbirth & its after effects, and sleepless nights etc etc etc.

Ignore him. I'm fed up of casual misogyny like this.

It is an achievement to make professor and 50 is not past it. It's prime of career life.

Honestly, not that many men become profs before 50. He’s just making a clumsy off the cuff sexist remark, ignore it.

At Cambridge we still have 67 as a retirement grade for academic staff and many unis don’t have a fixed retirement age now. To be honest making prof over 50 is about right as a career path.

My DH is nearly 60 and still at L grade, where he has been for the last 20 plus years since getting his first permanent post. I must remind him he should be very disappointed in himself 😉

(I will admit that we are both a bit grumpy that he didn't go for SL back when it was pretty much automatic tick boxing after a few years, as he didn't want to be in line for HoD 😆it's now so much harder to make the move up but he is too tired to make the case that he is treated as an SL in terms of responsibility - for L money - due to experience)

There is at least as much difference in age to reach professor by discipline, type of university etc as there is a gender difference. As PPs have written, many men don't make professor until at least 50, regardless of discipline.

I also don't get the basic premiss of it being a problem to not make professor until a particular age. Apart from salary, there is very little that you can do as professor that you can't do as associate professor - the latter are still asked to be heads of department or to take on major admin roles. It's not like opportunities suddenly open up just because you are a professor.

I was pondering this the other day, sort of. I'm late 30s (just about ) with small DC and have several other colleagues that are the same. The women in their 30s/early 40s in our place almost all look exhausted, frazzled, talk of being overburdened. The women in their 50s look fab and ooze confidence. Good for them, they're having their time now.

Thanks so much for your thoughts everybody. They make me feel a little better. I agree the title is as much about ego as anything else - but I did feel rather deflated. That's good, because I am now fifty and still miles away from being professor, I think. 😀

I guess I might be one of those sad women but have never cared about the title. I would like more money but there isn't much more money for profs - the junior prof pay scale is really poor where I am.

I keep laughing when the HoD talks about promotion at the annual review. The process is so laborious and the failure rate quite high. I'd like to fail at something else.

Definitely agree that women in their 50s shine, just as men hit their realisation that their avoidance of family responsibilities was not properly rewarded by career points.

Or you know, selection bias. The women who survive through their forties are the high fliers, the perfectly competent, bright but not good at negotiating women with children burn out and leave before then.

Not selection bias. Immortal time bias.

Most people reach the pinnacle of their career in their 50s, regardless of whether that’s in the academic, private or public sector.

Yes of course some get there sooner, but that’s usually because they’re unencumbered by child-raising. Obviously.

So by all means start a new career.

But good look reaching the pinnacle of it before retirement!

This. And most female professors who have had children seem to drop to fractional contracts as if they are just done by then.

Thanks again everybody. One of the things I am struggling with more rather than less as I get older is the unfairness of academia.

I will give an example (this is relatively extreme and may sound a bit mad). I have a male colleague who is the son of a very eminent academic. He works at an elite uni, under the long-term mentorship of another very eminent academic, and has had a very fast and impressive rise to prof, under the age of 40. I have absolutely no doubt he is very good. But I also have absolutely no doubt he has been massively assisted by any number of factors, including that he is very well aware of how to play the game and extremely well networked.

But what I have also noticed (and I do constantly ask myself whether I am completely imagining this) is occasions where I make a point/argument, which very shortly afterwards I hear him adopt, and then I hear it repeated back to me by other academics, as something he - the eminent (male) prof - said. It is like quite literally his voice is much louder than mine. I know this makes me sound crazy. I am embarrassed even to write it down. But ... has anyone else experienced anything like this?

I do want to emphasise that many academics get to the top on a really meritocratic basis - but on the other hand, it does seem that knowing the rules and the right people is massively helpful.

Oh I fully believe you OP. I think most women in most professions would believe you.

I completely believe you, in fact I'm wondering if I know this son, but in the case I know he's not very successful and is only sitting there on his father's name.

I'm hoping to be a prof by late fifties! Started later after other career, had kids during PhD, caring responsibilities for at least a decade, and as others have said, I'm now freer in my fifties to put my foot down and do what I've been waiting to do for about 15 years. I want the money, and the recognition.

Lots of our male professors are not good value for money, they come with a grant around 55-60 and then just sit there doing very little and leading very little til retirement on a huge salary, it really annoys me. If a female prof does this, they tend to drop their hours down and also do more.

@Highdaysandholidays1 this person really is successful. And one of the problems is that he is very 'nice.' Outwardly, supportive. But as ambitious as you could possibly imagine and I think in the end, quite ruthless. Interestingly, he gave me a rather large shout-out in a recent publication which in my slightly crazed way, I took as partial acknowledgement that he knows that I know what is going on here.

Going back to the original prof who made the point about women making Chair in their 50s, a few years ago he won a highly sensitive and large project which I also bid for and where again, I am fairly convinced he was massively assisted as it was led by white men. One simple thing they could have done was invite a woman to join their team - not necessarily me but possibly! They didn't. But if they had, it would have been extremely career-enhancing.

PS me too @Highdaysandholidays1 Very similar story and I also want the money and recognition - it feels as though I don't work this hard not to!

My DM made prof just at point of retirement, she saw it as validation for her hard work over many years, it also had positive impact on her pension and her status as a retired academic.

I am fine sitting where I am though. I am happy I have a permanent interesting job and am not motivated to make myself ill or work on things I don't like or have a ridiculous life to obtain anything else. It's just that it's so much easier to work when you are not wrangling small children, caring for relatives and failing in every life department!

I am learning to be happy where I am - and I AM in the happy situation of having moved jobs and weirdly been given a professorial salary but not the promotion (I'm years off the latter, still). I can only explain the salary because I asked for it, basically. But I agree - permanent, interesting job is not to be sniffed at.