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Viva. Help!

34 replies

NorthernSpiceGirl · 02/06/2023 09:58

I had a mock viva a few days ago. It was a disaster, really. I wasn’t able to speak more than a couple of sentences at a time and was totally unable to remember any specific details. My supervisors were critical, they didn’t seem to understand that it was nerves and kept telling me that I had to say more as if I didn’t know that!

I have a history in these situations of freezing. Does anybody have any tips? I’m terrified.

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titchy · 02/06/2023 10:08

Beta blockers Blush

NorthernSpiceGirl · 02/06/2023 10:14

@titchy

I have considered beta blockers but it’s almost impossible to get a GP appointment. Has anyone used anything else that’s worked eg. CBD oil or rescue remedy?

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NorthernSpiceGirl · 02/06/2023 10:18

What I’d also really like to hear about is other people who have been unable to speak but still passed 😄 (I’m not bothered by major corrections, I just don’t want to fail)

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Helloits2023 · 02/06/2023 11:56

Do you have a printed copy of your thesis? If not I would strongly recommend printing it out if at all possible (I just printed mine at work and bulldog clipped it together). The examiners went through the thesis systematically, often referencing a specific chapter/section/paragraph, which meant it was entirely appropriate for me to then turn to that section, remind myself what they were talking about, and come up with a response. Should help with both jogging the memory and giving you more time.

For the obvious questions (what are your main results, key policy takeaways, most important limitations, main contributions to the field etc), prepare answers- literally type them out word by word. You don’t have to read them out, but having done the process will make it so much easier to answer from notes.

bge · 02/06/2023 12:04

i get beta blockers from the nhs online pharmacy.

HRTeatime · 02/06/2023 12:06

Can you afford a private gp consultation? Lots of companies will give same day telephone or video consultations. A one off prescription for beta blockers is probably your best bet to be honest. Or pop in to your local pharmacy and ask to speak to the pharmacist to see if they can suggest anything.

The other thing is to practice over and over. Write out answers to likely questions and then practice saying them, a lot. Really hope it goes ok for you op.

NorthernSpiceGirl · 02/06/2023 12:13

Thank you all for your advice. I didn’t think of a private GP, that’s a good option. I’m a bit scared of beta blockers but I know they are commonly used in these kind of situations.

I suppose I am looking for reassurance that people can pass if their thesis is ok even if they mess up the viva. But I guess that’s not realistic.

I have printed out my thesis with lots of post its but was too flustered to find anything in it. My supervisor said it’s ok to bring it on a laptop and that might help.

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Hernamewaslola1 · 02/06/2023 12:20

You could make a short PowerPoint presentation if your examiners are happy with this - your supervisor will have to check. I am quite nervous at clinical exams too and remember being a nervous wreck during my MRCP PACES exam (I had to do it 3 times!). I’m not sure where you are doing your PhD but I was always told that the viva is just an informal chat - it’s the one opportunity you have to really go in depth in to your research and people actually care (for that 2 hours or however long it is). Honestly once you start talking you will get over your nerves pretty fast and before you know it, it will be over. Has your supervisor chosen nice examiners? I don’t think any supervisor wants their student to fail as it would look pretty bad on them. Good luck!

Igmum · 02/06/2023 12:42

I wouldn't go for beta blockers, they utterly debilitate me to a point at which I can barely function - I would hate to answer academic questions while on them.

Helloits is right. Many viva questions are ragingly obvious (what's your contribution? Why this theory? Practical/policy implications? Advantages/limitations of these methods? More about your findings etc). Prepare answers to these. I'd recommend brief notes so you will speak to them rather than read them.

If you have halfway decent examiners they should help to draw you out a little (we've all had PhD candidates who need to be warmed up and enticed out of their shells). Ask your supervisors to tell the examiners you're likely to be nervous (I always ask).

Finally, remember that you know this topic better than anyone else in the world and that your examiners are genuinely interested in finding out more about it.

Good luck

Igmum · 02/06/2023 12:43

And yes, you can mess up the viva and pass the thesis.

Thack · 02/06/2023 12:54

Do you have a tutor you could ask for another mock or an interactive session with? If that would help?

Practice makes perfect, maybe questions will repeat and you can get some advice on a question by question basis.

NorthernSpiceGirl · 02/06/2023 13:04

@Igmum thank you for responding!

I have prepared every possible question, scripted them all, recorded myself saying them and listened to them over and over again but couldn’t recall any of it when I was in the room.

My worry about beta blockers is my blood pressure dropping as I faint easily. I use CBD oil to help me sleep and I’m going to try that in the daytime today to see if it helps.

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Carriemac · 02/06/2023 13:07

I got beta blockers for my viva, weirdly in the end I didn't take them i was just so reassured by having them. I recommend the vox coaching website for dealing with nerves.

decemberdecember · 02/06/2023 13:38

“I suppose I am looking for reassurance that people can pass if their thesis is ok even if they mess up the viva. But I guess that’s not realistic.”

If it helps, OP - my thesis was good, my viva was excruciating, and I passed with minor corrections. I’m AWFUL at speaking - always have been!

PumpkinSoup21 · 02/06/2023 13:48

Think about what a viva is for. (btw I’ve been an examiner so I know what I’m talking about).

It’s not a memory test. The first purpose is to establish that this is your work and that you understand what you’ve presented in your thesis. Any half decent examiner will use all the usual questions about ‘what is your main argument?’ ‘Why did you choose this topic?’ to establish that. These aren’t meant to be trick questions. You can tell them you are nervous - they should understand. If you realise you’ve got off track or not given your best answer you can say ‘can I answer that question again? I want to make sure ‘x’ is clear.’

The second purpose is to establish the ‘original contribution to knowledge’ that you need to make at PhD level. Examiners will establish this by asking about other work in the field and again about your argument. Why did you engage with this scholar in this way? What did you think of x’s work? They might directly ask what is your contribution.
They have largely already made up their mind about this from your thesis. That could seem scary but it could also be freeing. You don’t have to convince them from scratch - your thesis has done 80% of the work for you, probably more. They want to clarify some points and check why you made certain choices.

The third purpose is to determine exactly what corrections need to be made. Major corrections is the most common outcome in many fields - it’s a perfectly normal outcome. Minor corrections is also common. Again, the vast majority of this is decided in the examiners’ reading and reports before the viva. The viva is a positive opportunity to address some points so that these don’t get added to the list of corrections.

So, I might ask someone in the viva ‘I notice you only mention ‘b’s’ work quite briefly in chapter 3, why was that?’ If they say ‘I don’t think b is relevant’ but can’t give a reason why, then there might be a correction there to check b’s work and address it through an additional paragraph or a footnote. If they say ‘I looked closely at b and decided they didn’t need to be more than briefly mentioned for this reason’, I’d probably strike that off as a correction altogether.

Some areas that could be subject to corrections could be tackled in the viva like this, others are going to be addressed afterwards in writing whatever you say or do.

You can’t guess everything they are going to ask you about and you don’t need to. Just give the best answer you can. You can say you don’t know or that you need a minute to think. Obviously you ideally won’t do that for every question but if you get an unexpected one that’s fine.

Overall, any half decent examiner sees the viva as an opportunity for you to do well and to show what you care about. They don’t want a horrible viva experience any more than you do. Sometimes examiners are not half decent. Sometimes they are shit and treat you badly. But your control over this is limited and it is the exception rather than the rule. Even then your internal or independent chair is there to add another perspective.

In terms of how to prepare - practice, practice, practice, out loud, with other people. I know this is hard to arrange but bribe friends and family! Mark up your thesis with coloured post it’s and refer to it as you answer. You can also write notes in the margins/use highlighter and refer to them. Again, it’s not a memory test!

Good luck!

Igmum · 02/06/2023 13:50

Do you have flatmates/PhD colleagues/a DP/a passing milkman who could help you run through a few practice vivas? They can run through questions set by you and add in a few 'and can you tell me a little bit more about thats' to encourage you to say more. Just do it time and again until you are very used to saying it and start answering viva questions in your sleep.

Sounds like you have prepared incredibly thoroughly - possibly so thoroughly you are trying to be perfect. Don't worry about that and don't try to be. It is absolutely fine to admit to mistakes in the viva if the examiners have spotted anything - indeed it is to be encouraged because it shows that you are actually reflecting on your own practice and will do better next time.

I know of a scientist who, going through her own thesis the night before the viva, realised that she had made a crushing fundamental error which invalidated everything. After her initial reaction of frozen horror she made some rapid notes on what she would have done differently had she or her supervisors spotted this earlier and talked about that in the viva. She passed! It is far better to take that approach than to try to defend the indefensible.

If the thesis is fine, you will be fine.

By all means have a word with your GP but, given that the time I was prescribed beta blockers was to counteract high blood pressure, I suspect taking them with low blood pressure isn't a good idea.

Drosselmeyer · 02/06/2023 14:10

I completed my PhD recently and my tips are as follows-

  • you don't need to be slick and come across like someone giving a TED talk. It's absolutely fine to be visibly nervous- it's a nerve-wracking thing- and they are much more interested in the substance than in your delivery. So while it's normal to have nerves, you don't need to have nerves about having nerves, IYSWIM.
  • Your supervisor may well have given you an ultra-tough practice viva thinking that it was helpful to put you through the worse case scenario. That's helpful for some people but sounds like it wasn't for you. It's quite possible that your examiners will be much nicer. The aim is to allow you to present and defend your work, not put you through the wringer.
  • According to my supervisor, it's not uncommon for people to freeze, cry, leave the room, need a 5 minute break etc. None of this means you fail.
  • There are a few podcasts I found helpful- in particular a podcast called How To PhD which has two episodes on vivas, one on preparing and one about the day itself.
  • Agree with @Helloits2023 about preparing detailed answers to the obvious questions, typed out like a script. You don't then read them out but the process of having done this will help on the day.
  • You will be fine- they are not looking to fail you. Even if it feels challenging, that doesn't mean it's going badly- it's their job to ask challenging questions and answering them feels hard because it is hard, if you see what I mean- it's not a sign that you're not doing well.
NorthernSpiceGirl · 02/06/2023 15:31

Thank you so much everybody for replying, it’s made me feel a bit better!

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Excitingnewusername · 03/06/2023 17:44

One more tip that may help: take in paper and pen, and write down the questions you are asked. I find it helps focus the mind (reduced nerves by giving you something to do and a focus), and gives you time to formulate your answers as you're listening. It also gives you a chance to clarify the questions you've been asked from a better position than if you're going from memory.

Drosselmeyer · 03/06/2023 18:38

Will you come back and let us know how it went, @NorthernSpiceGirl ?

NorthernSpiceGirl · 03/06/2023 19:10

@Drosselmeyer I will!

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JofraArchersFastestBall · 03/06/2023 19:51

You will be fine. The assessment is of your work and your understanding of it, not of your presentation skills.
I'm a rubbish public speaker, and was very nervous, but got through the viva ok. I think that the examiners had pretty much made up their minds from reading my thesis and just wanted to discuss some finer points.

Nobody knows your work better than you do. You are the expert on your own thesis. Good luck and don't worry.

parietal · 04/06/2023 22:29

I have been an examiner for 20+ phd vivas and have seen students with widely varying levels of confidence. As an examiner, I want to have a conversation with the student about their work - the student is the expert, and I want to understand what s/he did and why it is important.

every viva I have ever done, it has been clear that the outcome is 'pass' before we even start. we are not officially allowed to tell the student that, but it is pretty darn hard to fail. A colleague who is now a v high-level Oxford prof tells how she did not say a single word in her viva because she was so shy and she still passed (but I don't recommend that strategy).

It is likely the first question will be something very general like 'tell me about your thesis in 5 mins' so have an answer prepared for that and then the rest can go from there.

Finally, you don't have to defend every point. if the examiner says 'why didn't you include a citation to Smith & Jones on page 20', you can say 'great idea, I'll include that in my corrections'. you don't have to make up a reason why you didn't include Smith & Jones while hastily trying to pretend you know who they are.

NorthernSpiceGirl · 04/06/2023 22:50

@parietal thank you. That’s very helpful!

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NorthernSpiceGirl · 07/06/2023 19:34

I passed, minor corrections!

Just as you all advised me, I should have trusted my supervisors when they said I was ready. The examiners were very positive from the start, which relaxed me so I could take on the difficult questions without being terrified that I was defending myself from a fail. There were some tricky questions but I dealt with them 😄

Thank you all so much for the wise advice !

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