Flexi working rejected

[Beckym4]

I am hoping someone can offer advice please?

I am employed by a company, who hired me during the pandemic, and we are now returning back to the office. Work proposed 2 days originally but now increased it to 3 days. I have put a flexi working request in for 1 day in the office.

I thought it had been approved by manager and their manager. I had my formal meeting with HR today, which I thought went well. But my manager phoned me after and advise we have another meeting next week due to the fact I work at home with dependents.

Why can they say after 8 months of working home with two children I might be dismissed? I feel I am great at my job, have a good rapport with clients and colleagues and management.

I'm shocked that they would allow any wfh without childcare in place! I thought that was a massive no across the board.

I’d ask to have this moved, OP. It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with working in academia, which is what this board is for.

I think during covid things were very different

But generally you cannot work and look after young children at the same time - your employer is paying.you to work

How old are the dependents?personally I wouldn’t be happy with any of my team working from home with young children. Totally fine when needs must (illness, unexpected school/nursery closure) or sometimes an hour or so after school (I do expect reasonable measures to make up the time though, not just disappearing for the school run at 3 and no reappearance). But permanent working from home with young children is not realistic. Regardless of how many days you negotiate you need to be working, not looking after children.

What was the conversation with work regarding office /home split when you took the job? It sounds like there was always an expectation that you would work part time from the office, it’s just you’re now it’s 3 days rather than 2. If it was written into your contract at the time of taking the job that it would be 2 days you can raise this, but they’re under no obligation to accept 1 day.

I work for a uni. We wfh during the pandemic. We have been told our jobs are based from campus and the requirement is two days in the office. Not unreasonable. Tbh with things returning to normal if you aren’t keen on the work patterns it might be worth looking for another job.

Thank you for your advice. My children at 2 and 4- one is in nursery and I am on a waiting list for private nursery for my youngest.

Nothing was said at the time of the interview that I couldn’t work with my children as the whole team were working at home. I have ran stats and figures against me and my team with no dependents and I take more calls and do more bookings than them. I am not distracted by my children.

Returning to the office was very vague in the interview and we were told it would be discussed nearer the time. It was only decided 5 weeks ago, it might be 2 days in the office and was increased to 3 days less than 2 weeks ago.

I feel pretty gaslighted by the interview, I thought it was about my request for 1 day but HR are saying it goes against their working from home policy. 1) why was this not discussed 8 months ago 2) I have the policy and nowhere it says I can’t work from home with dependents.

So sorry. I am new to this. I’ve asked a lady a question then I will remove once she had replied x

Wfh with dependents is not fair on anyone really, you can't be a good employee or a good parent.

How can you be concentrating on your work and also children that age though? They are not old enough to be left to their own devises for longer than half an hour, surely?

Well you not being distracted by your kids is one thing but what abouy their wellbeing? What if they got hurt because you were distracted by work?

Which of the two is already in nursery. YABVU if it's the 4yo and you have the 2yo while you work all day. Even if it's the 4yo at home, that is not a good set up. Kids need interaction, going out doors, etc.

It presumably doesn't say you can't wfh while also running a dog sitting business either but that's a given. When you wfh, you're supposed to be working. You cannot possibly put in an 8 hour day while looking after a 2 year old. It's impossible

You can't WFH and look after your child. Your child is 2, they aren't an age where they can do things for themselves so you will be more distracted than if you were in the office. Your lack of childcare isn't your employers problem.

I work in HR. Arrangements during the pandemic were different, but normal practice is you can't wfh in order to also care for you children. Childcare should be in place. If you need to be at home in order to look after your children then you need to put in a flexible working request to adjust your hours to reflect that. For example, you probably have colleagues who work less than 100% hours (and so earn less than 100% of a full time salary) in order to care for their children. I imagine that's what they want to discuss with you.

How can you care for a 2 and 4 year old and focus entirely on your work and not be distracted by them? That’s quite astounding.

Sent too soon! So if you want to keep working your current hours you need to find alternative childcare for your youngest until their nursery place comes through. Or ask to temporarily change your hours until that happens. Unfortunately you have rather shot yourself in the foot by saying you need to wfh in order to care for your 2 year old.

I work for a big bank and we've always been told that when the world opens up and childcare can resume we do not work at home with our kids.
In regards to being vague on the return to office days, my company were also like this as they simply didn't know what the plan would be due to capacity etc so your company may have been the same.

I don't think your request is either reasonable or there is anything you can do. We all had to work as much as we could over the pandemic with our children at home. This was at the detriment of the children, the work and at great (unfair) pressure on all our colleagues who are childless.

If you don't have childcare and don't want to find some you should quit. It's not fair on anyone involved.

You can't wfh with a 2 year old. Why didn't you sort childcare when you got the job? 8 monrhs ago childcare favilities were up and running as normal.
They wouldn't have said anything at the interview as I honestly dont think anyone would have thought you be attempting to care for a 2 year old alongside trying to work

I WFH with my children home but their dad is a SAHP. Occasionally he has had to pop out and I have a 2 and 4 year old (and a 6 year old who is obviously in school) and trying to look after them reliably is a NIGHTMARE. Especially when you have both of them. Such young children need supervision and direction. Of course sometimes it's absolutely fine, they will have a drink and watch something, but that can't be guaranteed.

It is incredibly stressful to say, be on a work call and someone suddenly start crying, or need help with the toilet, or the 2 year old does a poo if they're still in nappies. And with 2 they are more likely to upset each other or do naughty things together!

I don't know how anyone could do this for an extended period of time to be honest. I know you say you get your work done but what are the children up to?

I’m not sure it’s fair to say you were gaslighted at interview, they won’t have known, no one did.

Can’t you find a childminder? No one is going to believe you can care for a two year old and often a four year old and do your job. Not unless you sedate them and lock them in a room.

I wouldn't expect anyone to have to be told they can't work from home and care for children of those ages. Different matter during lockdown or as an occasional emergency measure, not as a matter of course.

It does not need to explicitly state that you need childcare while working. That is a normal standard of professionalism pre-pandemic and if office based. Have they agreed you only visit an office one day a week now? Did you previously advise them you would have sole care of the children while working, at the interview for example, or has that only emerged during these discussions? There was no gaslighting but you may have misunderstood what was intended longer term or it may not have been decided. It may even be disciplinary that you have no alternative childcare arranged after 8 months wfh and you could be let go if you refuse to change arrangements or work in the office as expected of others.

@JenniferBarkley

I wouldn't expect anyone to have to be told they can't work from home and care for children of those ages. Different matter during lockdown or as an occasional emergency measure, not as a matter of course.

Agree. It’s a given, right? It’s like saying I checked and it doesn’t say I can’t come to work in just a pair of crotchless knickers. Some things don’t need writing because you’d assume the employee is proffessional enough to know.