The reality of a PhD?

[pupcakes]

I would appreciate some opinions on what the reality of a PhD looks like from anyone who has done one, please. (I've been googling but keep getting American answers)

I don't know anyone who has done one so have nobody to ask. I am seriously considering applying for one; I am currently undertaking an MA Education which I'm really enjoying, I have a specific topic in mind which I'm really keen on.

Would be very grateful for any views on what the reality looks like, please.

Also, I am considering UCL or my local out of London uni- trying to decide if it's worth the commute into London for the more prestigious university or just to stick at where I know, am local to, and have found excellent during my masters this past year and a decade ago when I did my undergrad.

Thank you!

Also for further info; I'm late thirties, DC are teens, very supportive partner. We can afford for me to self fund. I don't work at the moment. I have worked in secondary schools for the past decade. I don't particularly aspire to working in academia; I want to do a PhD for the personal satisfaction- I am a first generation student from an extremely poor background and have always wistfully dreamed of one day doing one, and that day, is now.

I’ve been in a similar position (and background) to you - currently coming to end of PhD full time. DM if you want to chat

Experiences vary hugely, I'm distant and part time which is very different to full time and actually being on campus.

For me the key thing is choice of supervisors, more so than your institution, they need to be both right for your topic and right for you personally.

What do you mean by its reality?
Is it a lot of work/difficult
Does it affect future earning potential
What's the supervision/learning like
Bit of a vague question.

It’s really really hard - especially years 2-3 when you have lost a bit of enthusiasm and it becomes a real slog. Lots of long nights writing up and preparing results. But I did mine in my 20s, pre kids and I don’t think I regret it. Forever more you are a Dr and it helps whatever career you go in to.
Passion is key I think - make sure it’s a subject you can really get excited about.

Sorry, I mean what does it actually entail- Is it just a massive research project? Like on the MA but 80 times more in depth? Will it be like a full time job? Lots of my own data collection? Are there expectations to be in uni, or is it independent work? What role does a supervisor provide- I don't understand how you're meant to approach one when none seem to have any interests/works similar to my intended topic?

Thanks for other replies!

If you're self-funding then you'll need to approach academics who have expertise in your proposed topic.

Everything else is hugely variable depending on your topic, how you're situated, eg part of a larger research project or not, lab based work or not, whether your institution requires you to be on campus and/or take part in specific taught courses. Supervisors guide you through the process.

A PhD is essentially a research apprenticeship. It's evidence that you can conduct a project from start to end and are an expert in your (often teeny tiny) area of study.

To get an idea of what's involved look up PhD theses in your field and see what others have produced. There's also loads of books that go through it all.

Here you go, here ls some that came up from a quick google for U.K. PhD theses in education:

www.lincoln.ac.uk/education/research/schoolofeducationdoctoraltheses/

^here are some

This is a pretty good starting point: www.wob.com/en-gb/books/estelle-phillips/how-to-get-a-phd/9780335205509. As for what it entails scope-wise, a look also at PhD theses in your field, to get a sense of what the nfinished product looks like (they are nowadays normally available online, search by academic department, e.g. Institute of Education: www.bl.uk/ethos-and-theses).

As you have an idea of what interests you, search Google Scholar to see recent work in your area (don’t pay to read papers, there’s loads out there for free via university repositories, or glean what you can via the abstract). This will also help you find which academics are relevant to your area.

www.findaphd.com/ has some useful info too.

Don't know anything about a PhD, but I'd be interested

Hi,OP -

This sounds exciting.

Although it is a great thing to have your own area of interest, in STEM, which may function differently to social science in this respect but is the only thing I know, you would be expected to take advice from your supervisor in formulating your dissertation topic. I would think this a good idea in any case. Initiative is wonderful but a student won’t be aware of the traps, of which topics may be incompatible with research methodologies, etc. Academics’ interests may be difficult fully to discern from their CVs, but if absolutely no one is interested in the topic you have in mind, there may be a good reason (research methodology, feasibility, etc) for this.

Are you definitely planning to self fund? Existing funded projects have already attracted a certain level of interest. If you might possibly want to link this degree into your career, that becomes important.

@Anomalocaris gave a nice summary. Different pairs of students and supervisors will make different arrangements, particularly if distance is involved. Completing a PhD in three to four years is roughly a full time job.

Your supervisor’s reputation and networks are more important for your career than the university (if you care about this, I can’t quite tell from your wish to pursue a possibly quirky project and I am definitely not criticising that). But the university’s reputation does matter. The Institute of Education at UCL is absolutely tops worldwide. If I were in your place that would make a big difference to me

Hi,

I'm a professor in science at an RG university & supervise many PhD students.

So the first key point is - DO NOT SELF FUND A PHD. You will be literally burning your money on an expensive hobby. So if you are already a multimillionaire with time on your hands that is fine. But if you want to get a better job at the end or use the PhD or something, it is NOT WORTH IT.

If a PhD project is worth doing, then the university or a grant agency will fund it. And if you do a funded PhD, you have a much stronger CV (because you got funding) and you have stronger backing from the university who will be penalized if you drop out.

So - look carefully for a funded PhD. That means either apply for a project that is advertised on 'findaphd.com' or apply for university funding (deadlines normally in Nov / Dec).

Second, think carefully about why you want a PhD. do you want a job in academia long term, or do you want to apply your PhD work in another domain? If the former, remember that only 5% of people who start a PhD end up with a permanent academic job so have a plan B. If the latter, make sure your PhD will give you good transferable skills and not just make you overqualified.

Third point - a good supervisor can make your PhD great and a bad one can ruin it. Pick your supervisor very carefully. does this person do great research & have the network & resources you can tap into? are they a nice & supportive supervisory whose previous students speak well of them? Do talk to current / recent students if you can & get the gossip.

Good luck - a PhD is great fun if it is the right one, but be sure you are clear-headed and have the right supervisor & the right reasons.

@pupcakes

Sorry, I mean what does it actually entail- Is it just a massive research project? Like on the MA but 80 times more in depth? Will it be like a full time job? Lots of my own data collection? Are there expectations to be in uni, or is it independent work? What role does a supervisor provide- I don't understand how you're meant to approach one when none seem to have any interests/works similar to my intended topic?

Thanks for other replies!

A typical PhD is like a full time job. A thesis in my field has 5-6 chapters:

chapter 1 - introduction & BIG literature review. 6 months of writing
chapter 2 - an experiment, similar to your MA research project but bigger.
chapter 3 - next experiment, follow up on the previous & add something
chapter 4 - another experiment, maybe a new method or different way of looking at the question
Chapter 5 - maybe a final experiment, not always needed
Chapter 6 - discussion & review. explain how your new data expands our knowledge and advances theories etc.

So each of the 3 or 4 experimental chapters is like your MA research project but bigger and they can build on each other to really answer a question in detail. Each one is typically the kind of study that could be published as a scientific paper (and ideally will be published in that format too).

When you write a research proposal for the PhD, you should be able to plan out the chapters and have a timeline so you will know if you are on track etc.

Some PhDs have one massive project instead of 4 small ones, but there will still be subcomponents in the different chapters. for example, a longitudinal study of learning might have:
Chapter 2 - wave 1 data
Chapter 3 - wave 2 data
Chapter 4 - wave 3 data
Chapter 5 - longitudinal analysis across waves

As above, your supervisor is critical to your PhD and you need to find one with the right expertise to guide you. Ask the tutors on your current course who they would recommend to study your topic and they can point you in the right direction.

I would concur with the post above - be very very clear with yourself about why you are doing it. You say it would be for personal satisfaction; but are you really sure that would be fine for you? Many people say this, but still hold a torch for the idea of the academic career. Being brutally honest: the job market in academia is beyond shit at the moment. I know many researchers who’ve come top of their subjects with brilliant Oxbridge Firsts and amazing PhDs and publications, who haven’t managed to get an academic job and have ended up teaching freelance and tutoring school students. Academic culture is bitchy and competitive and almost everyone is insecure, both emotionally and financially, apart from those with luck and money from elsewhere.

Even those very few who do get academic jobs are largely overworked and highly stressed. It can take ten or even fifteen years post-PhD to get a permanent job as opposed to a temporary contract. Unless you are cushioned by oodles of personal cash, and extravagantly lucky and blessed, academia is not a happy place. (The other aspect of this is that even if you really are just doing your PhD for personal satisfaction, everyone else is bitter, insecure and angry, which does not make for an enjoyable working environment.)

So - be really honest with yourself. Would you be happy spending your PhD working on a niche subject, largely alone, or around (when you do encounter them), a lot of paranoid, overly competitive, bitter people with no sense of fellow-feeling? (I’m being quite honest here; academia is a selfish and insecure environment which does not bring out the best in people.) And are you happy to do this thesis and in four years’ time to change direction again and do something else if you don’t get anywhere with jobs and so on? Everyone thinks they will be the exception, but even entry level research posts in the humanities might attract several hundred applicants and only interview four people for one three-year, temporary post paid around £20k. And most of those several hundred rejected people will have top notch qualifications, PhDs, publications, books, teaching experience, etc etc.

(I mean, I just don’t quite know how to describe how bad the job market is right now. The posts keep getting fewer, and the bar keeps being raised for what’s expected in really dramatic ways — when I sit on a committee for entry level posts, the CVs of people finishing their theses quite seriously look like the CVs of people getting Readerships a generation ago!) I wouldn’t get hired these days. Neither would most of my colleagues.

The competition is insane and the rewards are swiftly diminishing. Pay has been declining in real terms for a long time, conditions are bad - overwork and stress and poor work life balance - and the pension is about to be completely crapped up.

As long as you really truly can say you really do only want to do it for personal satisfaction, and you have the financial and emotional resources not to mind if it doesn’t go anywhere else - then okay; but be really, really honest with yourself about what you want and what outcomes you would be okay with. Ask graduate students in the field about their experiences - especially the ones finishing their theses. And listen to those grad students describing what academia is like and take them seriously. It’s a profession that continues to draw in an oversupply of bright idealistic people and then chew them up with no hope of a further career; and it’s really, really important to know that before you start.

Wow, thanks for the replies.

@nightscrollingdoom I'm sorry to read your post, it was really saddening. I don't know anyone who has done/is doing a PhD to ask, except half of my lecturers, who are all pretty happy and positive people, my personal tutor and my program lead have both been really encouraging me to considering a PhD. Either at our uni, or anywhere? I would love to speak to grad students but don't know where to find any. I am (very fortunate) to say I truly do want to do it for the personal satisfaction, I am absolutely not thinking of a future career and would be perfectly happy carrying on working at the level I was at in my school career- I don't aspire to go any higher- (been there, burnout, no good!) so happy ticking along as I am, just with a PhD in my secret pocket.

Thank you so much for all of the replies which have given me much to think about.

Funding - my understanding is that education funding is extremely rare, and my googling has shown any funding opportunities tend to be for teaching based topics (i.e anything that could improve things in schools) which mine is not. I would obviously love to be funded but my current uni doesn't have any funding opportunities whatsoever, and looking at UCL and Cambridge their websites are extremely vague. I did actually email UCL and ask them for more information on funding and got a very generic reply back basically saying funding is up to the student to secure.

Supervisors - so if my topic was say, SEN in early years, but none of the supervisors on the uni list have experience in SEN, does that matter? Should I then simply look for someone who appears to have excellent research skills, just not necessarily in my field? Also, I don't understand how you're supposed to try and narrow down a good supervisor from a uni you don't go to, some of the profiles online are very short and without personal impressions of meeting them I can't judge them based on if they're nice etc, also no way of speaking to other students and asking how they are.

The FB group 'PhD and early career researcher parents' is very good. Lots of just about to do a PhD, current students and post docs.

If you can shortlist some potential supervisors based on your/their area of interest, you can identity their current PhD students and ask them about their experiences. I know that I wouldn't mind at all if someone approached me to ask.

One way to find supervisors is to start on google scholar. Try to find the kind of paper that you read and think 'I wish i could do that kind of research' and see who did it. If the work was in the last 5 years you can email and ask if they still work on the topic.

Similarly, connectedpapers.com can help you search the academic literature for related people.

@parietal - that's AMAZING!! I have never seen connectedpapers.com before. I have work to do - I can't start randomly exploring papers like I so much want to...

For the OP, if it is just you wanting to do a PhD for nothing other than your own satisfaction, I don't see any reason to go to UCL - if you have found yourself in a place where the people are generally happy, I would want to stick there. Not all of academia is dire; I've found a nice little place where I'm surrounded by supportive people - I can't say happy right now as we're in the middle of a mental health crisis across the board, but in general we're good to each other and have each other's backs. But I've definitely heard stories that have made me very glad I've found this lovely pocket of people (even in my own Uni, there are some scary parts), and its one of the reasons I haven't much considered looking elsewhere for jobs even though there are some difficulties here regarding progression - I'd rather be where I am, even with that.

Can you discuss with your programme lead and tutor about who could be a supervisor? The research doesn't have to be exactly the same, but something that someone knows enough about to supervise. Or perhaps you could put a team together - for example, I've currently got some interdisciplinary PhD students doing things that neither I nor my co-supervisors understand all of, but I trust them to look after the bits that aren't my expertise and vice-versa.

Most funding for Education PhDs comes from five sources: ESRC open competition awards, ESRC collaborative awards (awards part-funded by ESRC and part-funded by an organisation or company), project-based awards (funding that is tied to a specific project run by the supervisor), university scholarships, practice-based awards.

Unfortunately you have missed the deadline for ESRC funding to start in the next academic year (the deadline is in January / February each year). University scholarships usually work to the same deadline. Project-based awards will come up throughout the year, depending on when funding is received, but it's quite common for start-dates even for these awards to run on the academic year calendar because it ties in better with training provision.

To apply for an ESRC studentship you apply to a university that is part of one of the 14 Doctoral Training Partnerships (DTPs) and which has your Doctoral Training Pathway. To do this, you need to identify a potential supervisor or department based in a suitable university and follow the department's instructions for applying (usually you have to write a proposal and submit a CV. Some departments require you to do this before any potential supervisor is involved). Once you have been accepted, you then submit an application for nomination by your department / university for one of the ESRC Doctoral Training Pathways held by your university. If you are nominated, your application is then assessed by the DTP and they decide who should get funding.

The Doctoral Training Partnerships that cover London are:

• LISS (Kings, Queen Mary, Imperial) liss-dtp.ac.uk/studentships/studentship-competition-the-application-process/
• UBEL (UCL, SOAS, LSHTM, Birkbeck, East London) (Education Pathway is mainly UCL/IOE) ubel-dtp.ac.uk/esrc-studentships2/pathways/education/
• SeNSS (UEA, Goldsmiths, Reading, Roehampton, and Sussex have the Education Pathway) senss-dtp.ac.uk/apply
• LSE info.lse.ac.uk/current-students/phd-academy/esrc-doctoral-training-partnership (does not have an Education pathway)

The others are:

• Cambridge www.esrcdtp.group.cam.ac.uk/
• Grand Union (Oxford, Brunel) www.granduniondtp.ac.uk/education
• Midlands (Birmingham Loughborough, Nottingham, Warwick have the Education pathway) warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/mgsdtp/studentships/howtoapply/
• NINE (Durham, Newcastle and Queens Belfast have the Education Pathway) www.ninedtp.ac.uk/education/
• North West (Lancaster and Manchester have the Education Pathway) nwssdtp.ac.uk/how-to-apply/pathways/educational-research/
• SGSSS (Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling, Strathclyde) www.sgsss.ac.uk/studentships/
• South Coast (only Southampton has the Education Pathway) southcoastdtp.ac.uk/apply/
• SWDTP (Bath, Bristol, Exeter have the Education Pathway) www.swdtp.ac.uk/prospective-students-and-fellows/esrc-funded-studentships/
• Wales (only Cardiff for Education) walesdtp.ac.uk/studentships/
• White Rose (Hull, Leeds, Manchester Met, Sheffield, Sheffield Hallam, York have the Education Pathway, but Hull is psychology-focussed) wrdtp.ac.uk/studentships/

All their websites have information on applying for a PhD, applying for funding, what a PhD involves, etc. which are useful even if you aren't going to apply for ESRC funding. Some of them have ways to contact current students, ideas about how to find a supervisor.

If you propose to self-fund (or try for a University scholarship), you still have to apply in the same way (by identifying a supervisor / department and completing the relevant forms, etc.) but you can self-fund pretty much anywhere that will accept you and apply at any time.

Generally, Social Science PhDs are student-led. That means you decide on the topic, collect your own data and so on, with guidance from your supervisor(s). Some project-based and collaborative ones might be a bit more directed, but even then are usually quite open about what is studied within a broad theme.

A PhD must make a substantial original contribution to knowledge. It is better to have a supervisor who has knowledge of the subject of your PhD because they can help you to assess if your PhD will make such a contribution (you do not want to find out at the viva that other academics don't think it does!), as well as helping you with resources. For competitive places (and funding) that reject a lot of applicants, you will be unlikely to be offered a place unless there is someone there who is interested in your topic to supervise you.

It is difficult to assess whether you will get on with someone as a supervisor, although they will probably interview you before offering you a place which gives you some idea. Some departments will use a two supervisor model which has its pros and cons. Keep in mind that while supervisors should be pleasant and courteous, their job is to make sure you get a PhD, not to always be nice and keep you happy. There are times as a supervisor where you have to be honest about a student's work, no matter how hard it is for them to hear. Some departments will have profiles of their PhD students including the topics they are working on and their supervisors, so you can contact them to ask about their experiences. (e.g. Cambridge Doctoral students in Education: www.educ.cam.ac.uk/people/doctoralstudents/)

The word count can vary by subject but is usually around 70-100,000 words in the Social Sciences. If you are doing a full-time PhD, you are expected to treat it like a full-time job. Depending on the structure of your course, you may be expected to be at the university for 2 or 3 days a week in your first year to attend structured research methods training courses. After that generally it is up to you where you work, but it is good to try to be part of your department or university's PhD community simply for the support you can get from other students.

Personally, I find it a bit concerning that you do not know any PhD students in your own department. That suggests to me that either there are no PhD students or that any there are in the department are not well-integrated into the community and that they do no teaching. Neither is ideal in terms of the support you can expect there.

Hi again, OP -

So you now have a spectrum of opinions. @parietal is emphasising the reality for anyone who has plans to use their PhD in a career and I am with her on that. But some people really do take the degree for personal satisfaction. If you are 100% confident that you are one of them and that this won’t change as you see discretionary opportunities being given to those who need them for their CVs, your situation is genuinely different. I should think you would need to know yourself very well indeed to be sure of this

Of course your local uni would love for you to apply to do a self funded PhD. It would be an absolute gift to them. Why aren’t they discussing funding for you? If they haven’t got any to offer, that is one kind of red flag. If you are wedded to this project and they aren’t interested in funding it, that is another - although if you really have no interest in using the PhD afterwards and are comfortable with the lesser opportunities you may have as a student compared to funded peers, I think it is fine to pursue the degree for personal satisfaction.

I would think the IoE at UCL so exciting that it would be worth drilling down on what is happening there to see if your interests align with those of any staff members. An important caveat is that if all students are expected to self fund then obviously you don’t stand out for doing so. An institution of the calibre of IoE is still going to exert a high level of quality control over its students’ dissertation topics. Furthermore it may be the case that students do pick up support. There ought to be an online network where you could investigate this

A PhD is an independent piece of original research so yes- it’s like doing a more extensive version of your MA dissertation project (about 3 times the size) over 3-4 years full time as other people have said. The big shift is that in a PhD you create your own structure and manage your own time. You have to navigate the literature and topic on your own - rather than be guided through it by a set course. So it is a very different experience to doing an MA - a lot more independence, but also it can be quite lonely and isolating as literally no one else is doing the same thing as you, and it’s a long haul. You have to enjoy reading, thinking and writing on your own and not need much external structure, as well as be able to run all the practical elements of your research with minimal help. I loved the freedom of it but it really isn’t for everyone, and can be hard to sustain enthusiasm over the whole time, especially if you’re part time. Basically think about every process you’ve done for your MA project- in the PhD you will have a more extensive and involved version, including all the boring and procedural stuff.

Supervisors are there to guide you through the process - so it’s important they know the broad area as some other posters have said but no one will be an exact fit as your project should be new. You can have supervisors who bring different expertise - so one knows about the topic and one methods for instance. Most important IMO is that they are supportive and engaged. It’s probably safer to find people who have supervised some phd students to successfully complete, so be wary of academics wanting to supervise you with no experience - but also be cautious as very big name academics are often extremely busy and aren’t necessarily the best supervisors.

My experience of academia hasn’t been the hyper competitive nightmare some posters have described although I know that is the case in some institutions and departments. So I’d say if you want to pursue it for interest and can afford it, then do! But do be aware it’s not like doing another MA but quite a different undertaking, and try and do some research on people and places in your field, including finding some social media phd student groups for education if poss to get the lowdown on what the different departments are like. The IoE is a great institution, but ultimately your supervisor and the support you’ll be offered is probably the most important consideration. It is fine to just email individual academics and ask if they would consider supervising you, but also most departments will have a ‘PhD lead’ or ‘research degrees lead’ or similar you can ask. If you email a potential supervisor that’s not a commitment, but opening up a conversation to see if it might work so don’t be afraid to give it a go.

I self-funded my PhD (social sciences) for personal satisfaction. Absolutely no intention of having an academic career. I already had a job I loved.
But I had this project I wanted to run as part of my job, which I could see would be massively enhsnced by the rigour of statistical analysis, and substantial research reviews.
I was lucky in that two of the five people foremost in that field were at my local uni, so I approached them and one was enthusiastic to take me on as my supervisor. One of the other five became my external examiner.
In terms of workload, for me it was awful, but I was doing it alongside my more than full time job after the first year (not technically allowed in that university/ department, but as I was self-funding they turned a blind eye). It took me five years. However, if I hadn't had my job, I think I could comfortably have managed the workload.
Don't underestimate the sheer slog of a PhD though. When you are doing it just for you, it can be really hard at times to keep motivating yourself. For me, once I had found out what I wanted to, I really could not be bothered with writing it all up - not the written text, but the statistical analysis in the house style. The memory still gives me chills!
But you get to a point where, if you don't finish, you've wasted so much time that you would be furious with yourself, so it was sheer dogged persistence that got me through.

I'm part way through a self-funded PHD relating to a socially constructed disability. I have that perceived disability so having to force myself to read the literature surrounding it has turned out to be a life changing experience, so these fees have been worth it. It will also increase my professional reputation as it is in a related area.

My supervisor is classed as a leader in this field and had rave reviews from other students but they aren't the right fit for me, which means I'm basically working solo with the odd bit of feedback every now and again. Financially its frustrating but the benefits of this study still outweigh the negatives.

I'd describe the thesis of a collection of around 8 essays. I've been studying around childcare commitments and a part-time job and haven't found it too labour intensive.

I am very strict with my time management, I create a writing frame and once I feel I have enough sources I move on no matter how tempting it is to continue reading.