Would you travel to Saudi Arabia for work?

[Flockameanie]

I’ve been asked to co-supervise a phd student at an institution in Saudi Arabia that has a partnership arrangement with my HE inst. The prospective student is a woman, as am I, which is relevant.

The arrangement involves me travelling to SA once a year for about 4 days for face-to-face meetings. The rest of the time supervisions are online.

Would you do it? My hesitation here is about travelling to a country with extremely dodgy human rights. A colleague has told me rather alarming stories of her passport being confiscated at the airport, for example, which has put me off. On the other hand, the project is interesting and the ultimate outcome is a Saudi woman educated to phd level, which is no bad thing…

[parietal]

I would not if I were gay but as a very boring straight married woman I think I would. Your university should provide insurance / travel advice / support to enable you to do this safely.

[ghislaine]

Who is providing the travel funding? I would see if the student can come to you. Surely this will be of benefit to her in terms of access to resources, networking etc.

[TheUndoingProject]

As a woman travelling on a non-tourist visa you’ll have to be met at the airport by a sponsor. I’d find participating in a regime that so oppresses my rights really difficult. The risks of any legal dispute are also very serious - you can be held pending the resolution of commercial disputes etc. I’d also be worried about the risk posted by the war with Yemen.

[whatever1980]

Not a chance

[Skellisfeathers]

Whereabouts in saudi? That would affect my decision. Jeddah much more 'liberal' than Riyadh.

I would go just for the experience. It's a really interesting place with huge juxtapositions between old and new, modern and ancient. You will need a male person to escort you in public places.

[MoreHairyThanScary]

Could you get the supervisee to travel to you?

[Redburnett]

No. A male colleague who visited in a group in an educational context told me the women in the group were treated appallingly, abuse in the street etc.

[GCAcademic]

What an utter waste of your time, all those days travelling for four supervision meetings. I would refuse on the basis of that alone, before we even get to the Saudi Arabia issue. I agree the student should be travelling to you.

[NrlySp]

There is a Facebook group called two far expats. There are also Saudi expat groups for women. Maybe ask there. More recent experience
Personally as a lone woman I would not want to do this.
Maybe the student could come to the Uk or your meet some where more superficially liberal like Dubai?

[GCAcademic]

Thinking about it, I expect there might be visa issues with the student travelling to the U.K. that might be hard to navigate. I think this is an appalling model for an international partnership, and places an absolutely unreasonable burden on staff.

[MedSchoolRat]

Yes, I'd go. I had a similar (in my mind) decision ~30 years ago. Invited to Serbia by a colleague -- in middle of all the sanctions & terrible genocide stories against Serbia. On balance, I wanted to see for myself, hear for myself, what things were like there. I thought that first hand stories not just from journalists were important. I went with one other colleague but OP will have support/sponsor etc, so not alone. Saudi barely offers tourist visas, the visitor set up is always very structured.

Agree a mix of student & OP travelling would have benefits.

[MedSchoolRat]

ps: colleague has a Saudi student now (shes in UK with her children & husband). Things can be arranged for at least some female Saudis to be students in UK.

[SometimesIwalksideways]

Wouldn't go near it.

[konasana]

I do the same job as you and would not be willing to do this - instead I would try to get the student to come to me for the experience, or meet in a nearby country. Just couldn't risk being detained for any reason - I have children now. I wondered if bringing a male colleague with me might help but no, once you are there anything could happen.

[MaizeAmaze]

Yes, having lived in KSA, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend you go. As said above, it is a fascinating place with some beautiful places.

You don't need a male escort out and about, and personally I never experienced any harassment. The Saudis I know are kind and generous.

However, the racism is blatant, and a very strong hierarchical system exists.

[Pekkala]

You can get an evisa online now as a single female. You do not need to be met or accompanied by a man. You can drive (don't! it's carnage, use Uber). You can book and stay in a hotel on your own.
You do not need to wear an abaya or cover your hair (in the main cities, it is legal everywhere but perhaps in less usual in less cosmopolitan areas).
Saudi has changed hugely recently; the Saudis I met have been without fail kind, helpful and glad that people are visiting.

[bigkidsdidit]

I wouldn’t, personally.

[DifficultBloodyWoman]

I worked at two universities in KSA. I lived there for 5 years. I’m happy to answer your questions.

[Flockameanie]

Thanks for all your responses. A real spread of opinions!

The student can’t come to UK (she has young kids and no childcare, is the impression I got) and, in any case, the terms of the agreement requires me to go there. (Of course I don’t have to take the student on and I’m not getting any pressure to do so from my department).

[maddy68]

Yes I have. Depends on the area but as king as it wasn't permeant I would go again in a heart beat

[DifficultBloodyWoman]

Which university is it? And which city? Taif is very different to Riyadh.

[Flockameanie]

@Skellisfeathers

Whereabouts in saudi? That would affect my decision. Jeddah much more 'liberal' than Riyadh.

I would go just for the experience. It's a really interesting place with huge juxtapositions between old and new, modern and ancient. You will need a male person to escort you in public places.

It is Jeddah

[Franca123]

I used to work for an international organisation. They used Dubai as a meeting point for colleagues from Saudi Arabia. Still a dodgy country but easier to make it work and less risky.

[Skellisfeathers]

My dh grew up in jeddah and I've been a couple of times. It is an amazing place. Extremely modern but also really archaic! There are lovely beaches and private beach clubs where you can go for a swim and a sunbathe. Super modern hotels etc. The souk and the old town are really interesting. Avoid going down there on a friday though.
I am really glad I've been but i couldn't live there.
Dh had an idyllic childhood, living on an expat compound, swimming in the pool, going to the beach etc

Someone said you don't have to wear an abaya now- i would 100% take one and wear it off the plane until you gauge the lay of the land.

[Liveandkicking]

@Flockameanie

I’ve been asked to co-supervise a phd student at an institution in Saudi Arabia that has a partnership arrangement with my HE inst. The prospective student is a woman, as am I, which is relevant.

The arrangement involves me travelling to SA once a year for about 4 days for face-to-face meetings. The rest of the time supervisions are online.

Would you do it? My hesitation here is about travelling to a country with extremely dodgy human rights. A colleague has told me rather alarming stories of her passport being confiscated at the airport, for example, which has put me off. On the other hand, the project is interesting and the ultimate outcome is a Saudi woman educated to phd level, which is no bad thing…

No. I wouldn’t. Is there a way she could come to you or you meet in a third country?