Has anyone moved from teaching in schools to training teachers (uni / scitt)? [Title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[Staffroomdoughnut]

I think I’d like to work in an Education department lecturing / devising content / tutoring. Any insights would be useful.

Is it possible to get a job working on a specific course (PGCE) ? The jobs I’ve seen seem to involve working on several things.

How does it compare to working in schools (primary)?

What are the hours / holiday entitlement like? Do you have to go in to the department when the students are on holiday?

If I’m U3 in school would I be likely to start at the bottom rung of the payscale anyway?
Is the teacher’s pension scheme followed?

Thanks!

The vast majority of lecturers are hired based on their research experience, and teaching is usually something on which they only spend a small part of their time. You’re unlikely to get a university job which is purely teaching and doesn’t require you to have a PhD.

I've worked in academia. I think it very unlikely that you could move from primary teaching to a university. They are utter poles apart. Absolutely agree with @Donitta.

Most of the staff in my department are former school teachers you need to be to teach on a PGCE. It really helps to have some kind of post grad. A lot of people do the PhD once they are employed as a lecturer though rather than before.

Have a look at jobs.ac.uk for vacancies.

Some unis will be in the TPS usually the post 1992s. The traditional universities have a different and much worse pension scheme which they have spent several years on strike over.

You get less holiday than school teachers as you have a lot of work to do in the holidays. I get 6 weeks to taken when I want and the university closes for a week at Christmas.

The workload is not much better to be honest but you do have more control and flexibility. You will be able to work where you like if not teaching. The stress of regulation observations and ofsted is not there but you are under different pressure. I do love working in a university more than I did in a school.

@MadMadMadamMim

I've worked in academia. I think it very unlikely that you could move from primary teaching to a university. They are utter poles apart. Absolutely agree with *@Donitta*.

I imagine the OP wants to teach primary education orin which case you do need to be a primary teacher. She may need to do a masters first but many places will hire lecturers without a PhD in that subject.

Is this the sort of thing you were after OP?

www.jobs.ac.uk/job/CFO199/lecturer-in-primary-education-initial-teacher-education

I’ve got MA in Education and some other relevant postgrad / professional qualifications. The post I’ve seen doesn’t specify a PhD and I think I meet the job spec. Thanks @PumpkinWitch for the helpful posts. It’s a general idea of the work involved / workload / time away / pay I’m looking for and obviously I’d rather not send a big list of pay & conditions questions as a first impression. I do not think I’d enjoy teacher training but sounds like I’d be sacrificing holiday time with my child even if I can work from home.
It’s a red brick advert I’ve seen so may wait and see what else appears for the sake of pension etc. The ac jobs link is very helpful.
What is it about the job that you prefer to school @PumpkinWitch? Anything in addition to the flexibility to work at home / lowered pressure of observations? Do you create content for modules?

That should be I do think I’d enjoy teacher training!

You won't have a choice over the pension. The website should tell you which one. Post 92s May offer TPS. Pre will be USS.

The workload is high. Don't expect six weeks free in the summer. You'll start at the bottom of the standard lecturer grade advertised. Unless you have significantly more to offer over and above the person spec, which it doesn't sound like you do, that's your salary. You'll get annual increments till you hit the top of the scale then you're stuck. Unless you get that PhD and can move to a teaching/research post.

I did years ago - my background

Business & management degree
MBA
PGCe

I Wrote some papers presented at various conferences

The key bit - I did a CELTA

www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/celta/

I kept my school job but Worked at the university during the summer on their summer school programme and got to become an associate lecturer then dropped to 4 days then 3 at the school

I was then an internal candidate for jobs

Then got a Job in the business school teaching as they had lots of international students who needed English support and I worked on the summer school so had that experience

That's what I did

Work for the NHS now i get more money for the hours I do and I fancied a change of scenery after being made redundant owing to restructuring but it was a good way in

I do some occasional teacher training (usually 5 days a year) for a Scitt. I did this after having students from this scitt in school and making a link with the course leader through this. A colleague also left our school to work 4 days for a different scitt. Might be worth exploring the scitt side of things as well as more traditional teacher training routes. I really enjoy the days I teach the students.

@titchy It’s a teaching post that involves creating course content. It says on the person spec a good Honours Degree is essential and a relevant postgraduate qualification / professional qualification is desirable. Do you work in an Education department? Maybe it’s different as It’s quite vocational.
I’m not looking for a job where I can sit and do nothing for six weeks ( I do work for part of the school holidays but it’s not mandatory / dictated when to do it which makes it easier for childcare arrangements).
Thanks for getting back to me. It’s interesting to weigh up the pros of what I have now. Sounds like I’d be giving up cash, holiday and pension so maybe it’s not the best plan.

@omgthepain @ChocFondant

Both of your experiences sound great. Do you think it’s worth contacting local university departments and asking if I can do some work experience? I’m currently 3 days a week and doing a bit of university work alongside school would mean not gambling my current job / perks but trying something new that I think I’d find satisfying.

I was also thinking of asking my Head if I could take over a bit more responsibility for our student teachers. Maybe some mentoring and then get to know their tutors more. What do you think?

To be fair the USS is a decent scheme, but employee contributions are 11% now, and likely to increase a few percent again. It's also career average now not final salary. But still a DB scheme.

Mentoring and getting to know tutors sounds like a very good idea - you'd also get an idea of the sorts of students you'd be teaching.

Thanks @titchy
My current pension is career average now too (I’ve got 2 separate teaching pension pots since it changed). I’ve had lots of student teachers over the years and still have some of their thank you cards. I could definitely learn more about how it’s organised and get to know the uni tutors though so will try to do that.

I think doing more for your current students would be a really good idea. Definitely a way to get talking to their course leaders and tutors as well.

Have you seen any training about the new early career framework? I'm going on some mentoring and coaching training with that which is at a higher level than training I've done before. I enjoy the side of my job which is working with our students and nqts so I'm hoping that will be useful. Any opportunities you could take while still in school could be worthwhile

I have sent you a (rather long) PM :)

What are the hours / holiday entitlement like? Do you have to go in to the department when the students are on holiday?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

It’s a general idea of the work involved / workload / time away / pay I’m looking for and obviously I’d rather not send a big list of pay & conditions questions as a first impression.

There are no fixed hours, but you are expected to work the hours needed to do your job. Most academics find it hard to tae all their holiday. And we would be expected to work Open Days etc over weekends several times a year.

It's really not the 9 to 5 you envisage ...

You are involved in module design and if you are a module leader will have complete control over it which in nice.

Workload is still definitely an issue. As a primary teacher you don’t get student’s emailing you all the time and personal tutoring can take up a lot of time. A lot of students have been struggling with mental health at the moment snd the uni support services are overstretched.

There is a lot of scope for you to get some work and see if you like it. Both universities and school based training will have some staff who do part time teaching and visiting students on placement etc.

OP I work in a post 92 in senior management of an area which includes our School of Education.

Honestly, if you want fewer hours, it's not for you. Academia is a very long hours job. Education has a particular culture within that and may be less demanding - for ex, not requiring a PhD - but it is not a 9-5.

A full time academic in my institution who did not have a PhD would be expected as a minimum to -

Teach 4 modules a term incl module leadership (this involves all curriculum design, co-ordinating a teaching team, marking, tutorials and study support)

Take on some administrative duties such as programme lead, or admissions tutor, or marketing or dept social media

Substantial pastoral tutoring load and/or professional supervision

Supervising and marking dissertations

Standard additional duties would include attendance at open days (weekends) and Clearing in August, also marking summer re-sit work

That would be an absolute minimum and tbh, you would probably be regarded as not pulling your weight with that and in some depts even subject to performance management.

The likelihood is that in addition to the above, you would be expected either to have a PhD on the go with realistic timescale for completion and if not, a substantial community engagement project ("KE" in the jargon or knowledge exchange).

Sorry but as a previous head of dept I think you need to be a lot hungrier and more focused, and show a bigger appetite for the work.

OP it sounds like perhaps you’re finding primary teaching to be a heavy workload and looking for a way out so you can spend more time with your child? Then trust me when I say this is not a way out, the workload will be even heavier in a university and the hours even longer.

As another former HOD, totally agree with everything @JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff says.

Although I work at a research-intensive university in a leading research and teaching department, so the demands on us are even more - and all our work is absolutely supported by the teaching loads of our teaching-only staff, who carry a lot of the practice-led teaching. Even on 0.5 contracts they're pretty flat out during the teaching terms, although they do get all the vacations free (when full-time teaching & research staff with research responsibilities in their contracts do our research).