Much younger colleague promoted ..

[oggbogg]

.. and I feel pleased for him (genuinely) and totally rubbish about myself. He's brilliant, and it's entirely well deserved. And he's very supportive and encouraging to me and it's partly lovely and partly a bit embarrassing. I'm late 40s, over ten years in (second career), my career is going at a glacial pace, and I feel like I'm never going to 'make it.' By which I guess I mean, Professor. I just don't understand how people maintain the necessary pace of work, and have a life and a family and all the rest of it. I've been pushing lots of papers out in the last twelve months and writing a book and teaching and doing admin job and also I do quite a lot of impact work, and I am KNACKERED and hardly see the kids! Anyway, I have about 15-ish years of working life to go I guess - can I still 'make it'? Does anybody know any academics who got a new lease of life once the kids were a bit older and made faster progress from a rather slow start? Give me hope!

I remember a times higher article years ago that looked into why men gets professorships earlier than women and one of the main reasons is that they negotiate. So they get a job offer elsewhere and use that to get their chair at their current university.

What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't sound at all like you're slow based on what you are producing

So what is stopping you going for promotion?

Are you SURE you wouldn't get promoted if you applied? IME men 'give it a whirl' while women wait until they've aced everything. Take an objective look at the criteria - it sounds to me like you've been very productive indeed! Do you have a mentor? If not can you find one? A senior female academic with a family (if you can find one, ha!) who can advise? Is your line manager the kind you can approach to ask for an objective take on applying for promotion? Did it come up at appraisal, or can you bring it up if you have one coming up? I sympathize, I really do - I look at the criteria for the next grade up and just feel like crying... But you have time! If there are criteria you don't meet, start thinking about how to meet them (and what to drop to get there!). Slow and steady, try not to compare yourself to others, everyone's trajectory is different

I know someone who made prof in her late 50s. Also saw the faculty bit of a professorship interview process where I'm fairly sure all the candidates were in their 50s or early 60s.

When did you last apply for promotion, OP?

This has happened to me loads! I started late, after a period out of academia, had kids which slowed everything again, and then went even slower after that. I do feel quite positive about having a second wind now my children were older, but equally, I have also made my peace with younger better colleagues leap-frogging me. I think I will get there in the end, but I've also come to appreciate that having a good solid job with good pay (now I'm many years in) is a good thing for right now, especially in a pandemic. I go up and down how I feel about it.

I also agree applying for promotion and not second guessing is a good idea unless you really know it's not your time. I'm feeling like mine will be in a couple of years, but maybe 5 years. Don't be shy on that front.

Hi everybody, thanks so much for your responses. So in terms of being sure that I would not get promoted ... yes. Pretty sure. My publication record to date is really dismal. I mean what I have is OK, there's just not nearly enough of it. But I have been active (relatively) on impact (eg practitioner research, REF case study, etc, been on the TV and radio for what it's worth) and various other fronts. Which is weird and slightly embarrassing because I think it somehow means that I am slightly better known in my area than my publication record should suggest.

So when I say that I have been pushing out publications over the past year, any bid for promotion relies on these actually getting published and this is all taking a very long time at the moment, not least because the review process is taking even longer than usual.

More generally, I think too I am going to change my strategy slightly - I have tended to aim for the very top journals in my field which are incredibly hard to get into, when actually I could have built up a stronger record by also going for publications in an adjacent field which are slightly easier to get into (and where I have had more success). So that's what I am doing now.

The thing is I guess that I have curtailed my ambition slightly as I have failed to do everything that I wanted to do, but it's still there! And it feels unsual to feel this unmet ambition at my age? But perhaps its not ... but @signsofspring ... I agree, I am very fortunate to have a reasonably secure job that for the most part I enjoy.

Have you actually looked at your institution's promotion criteria? How transparent are they? I'd not bothered looking at mine, assuming that I wouldn't stand a chance, but my HoD recently encouraged me to apply and when I looked at the (actually very transparent) criteria, it turned out that I'd been underestimating myself. Incidentally, where I work, good impact work can compensate for a less prolific publication record.

I feel with you. A man who started a year after me is now a Head of Department and Professor. Many other men around the same starting time as me are Profs, and I'm still SL. (and I know I won't get promoted, I applied and was rejected - feedback was I need more publications and to be known - I'm working on it...)

A friend (who is also still a SL, but she hasn't applied for promotion) said that she recently felt like she was finally getting back into research once her youngest child was 8. Mine is now... fingers crossed I feel the same? I do know several female Profs, once just promoted recently who is considerably older than me, so it can happen. Plus, I hope I'll be one of those stories - I intend to apply again next year.

Hi both, again, thanks for responding and empathy for others feeling the same.

@gcacademic, yes, my impact work will probably allow me to get away with fewer publications than otherwise might be the case but I do need more. And with writing, rejections, resubmissions, etc it just seems to take me so loooooong.

@murmuration - I really hope to be one of the stories of someone whose career picks up. Fingers crossed for both of us! If the papers I have under review currently make it through and if I finish my book, I will also apply next year, for Reader at least.

Could you get a professor role at a foreign / not so good or new university? If so do consider it. A friend of mine was in your position and then in a bit of desperation applied for a professor role at a high profile Indian university which she got. She gives virtual lectures and three years later is now being offered professor roles in the UK. She’s in a specialist field.