PhD almost there - but took too long - feeling like I've ruined my options/ future

[Wishing14]

Hi, I'm not sure why I'm writing this post or what I'm asking for... but just struggling a bit at the moment with thoughts of the future/ next steps, and any advice or words of wisdom from someone would be really helpful.

I started a funded PhD in 2015, in business management, and am just about ready to submit the final thesis, so almost there. It's obviously taken far 'too long' I had a child in this time (and a year off) and have another due in a few weeks. Severe morning sickness has put things back, as well as not being able to pay for childcare (so effectively doing the PhD part time) and difficulties with supervision (not being able to get in contact, lack of support due to working remotely etc. etc.) life and the stresses of raising a family and so on...

But all of that is by the by, and to any employer looking at a CV will basically just see that it took far too long to complete. Especially as I won't be looking for work until early next year (maternity leave). My work is relevant and topical (both inside and outside academia) but there are no opportunities really at my uni at the moment, and I will probably look for positions outside of academia. Which I was expecting from the beginning, to be honest, I've always sat 'in the middle' between industry and academia, fitting in properly to neither! Prior to the PhD I worked in marketing agencies in London.

I'm almost 33 and consumed with feelings that I have really ruined my future, not sure what to do next. I live in the SW of England and there aren't massive career opportunities down here, with most employers discounting you because they see lack of experience, rather than respecting a PhD in any way. I feel like I've messed up taking this path, and spend most nights unable to sleep kicking myself for ever staring the PhD, all the stress and unhappiness, financial worry etc. it has caused me to basically be in a worse position when I started... I know worrying is counter productive but I can't seem to get out of thinking this way, and hating myself for it.

I don't really have a question as such, but don't really have anywhere to go for advice who understands the process (I have family support - but no support in this type of thing from my supervisors). Thanks for listening and sorry for the Monday morning woe is me ramblings!!

You have not ruined anything!

Firstly, you took at maternity leave so can take a whole year out of yout total time. Then sickness leave too. That should be briefly mentioned on your CV.

Secondly, a phd is hugely impressive, no matter how long it took.

If you are going to industry instead of academia, most employers dont know that a phd is 'typically' 4 years. They are mostly just hugely impressed by them and know about the prestige. I also know people who took 8 years to complete and still got good jobs. I personally took 1 year too long for mine.

Lastly, I'd have a long think about transferable skills from a phd, and reflection on experiences of management/supervision. That will really help for applications and interviews

Mine took nearly 6 years due to two children, as long as you note why it won't raise eyebrows, not outside academia and within it they should be understanding now, just note the reason on any CV.

I can't give you more advice about your area as it's not my topic and I don't know how much you can move about- it will be the inability to move for jobs that holds you back more than there being no jobs is my guess.

You've not ruined anything, you've done an enormous amount of work while birthing and raising a child etc. If anything that just proves that you're more than capable of most things!

Congratulations on your phd👏. That is a life goal for lots of people. You had the courage and tenacity to complete it, well done. And creating a new human! You are super woman. Learning is never wasted. I believe you may be feeling exhausted! Give yourself a break. Also, I think its not talked about, how many high achievers in education feel like failures, unless you become massively outwardly successful. Work on feeling good about yourself, why not?

That's a great achievement. Please don't talk it down. Maternity leave is a really good reason for taking a bit longer. You say yourself your work is relevant. They will not be counting the months, and if they are your reasons are very valid. It's an impressive achievement. Hold your head high.
(I also know people who took 7/8 years to complete, without a particularly good excuse, but landed good jobs because employers were interested in their research)

Please look at the positive side first. In six years you produced two children and a PhD! That's hugely impressive!

If you explain that you had two maternity leaves in that time, I think people outside academic will not be too bothered.

It's not my field so I can't advise on how to turn that degree into a job -- perhaps post in Chat for some ideas? So many employers are going to stick with remote work for the foreseeable so perhaps you can search for opportunities outside the SW.

You’ve not ruined anything! 6 years is a perfectly good time to complete a PhD.

You really do not need to worry! Step back, look at your accomplishments! You’re a shit hot woman - intelligent, determined, resourceful, with staying power.

You're only 33, you've got an entire maternity-leave worth of time to consider your options, you've complete a PhD... I'm struggling to see how you've ruined the next 35 years of your working life.

If you work in marketing, erm, why don't you just turn those marketing skills onto yourself and figure out what is your USP and find a niche to sell yourself into?
Just running yourself down is a bit depressing. Presumably whoever funded your PhD thought it had some value to contribute... why don't you start with that?

Echo all the above - you totally haven't messed anything up! PhDs take all sorts of different times - I got mine in the US where the standard was 5 years but I took 6 -fastest in my lab, actually, longest was 10 years! We all got jobs.

In academics people rarely look at the time to complete a PhD; there's just too much variation to make any sense out of it. And outside of academia they're unlikely to know/care. Two children and a PhD over the course of 6 years is in fact pretty impressive.

I have a PhD but work outside of academia (in uni professional services)- people who never completed a PhD have no clue what the "usual" completion timescales are. Even people who work in a university setting, unless you did a PhD/ work with doctoral students they don't really know or care as previous posters have said.

When I opened this post I thought you were going to say it's taken you 10 years or more. The amount of time you've taken is absolutely within normal limits so don't worry about it at all.

I think this is fatigue. You’re exhausted.💐

It’ll soon be done and when it is you’ll be able to relax and properly celebrate accomplishing something so fantastic.

Wow... I am completely blown away by all the responses and want to say thankyou for taking the time to read and reply! I've never really spoken aloud about how I'm feeling (except to my mum!) and it was so nice to hear encouraging responses.

I am actually taken aback by the consensus that the time I've taken isn't that long taking account of my circumstances. I have had a number of comments (admittedly from men..) within academia that have been shock/ shaking of heads/ jokes about 'maybe you will finish when your children are in uni' etc etc. Admittedly one of these men had a habit of calling maternity leave a 'holiday' so perhaps these weren't the best people to take advice from!!

Totally take on board the comments about running myself down, I think its in my nature to be self-critical, and I have always been this way (since childhood). Definitely something I need to work on in the future. I can always see the best in other people, need to try to apply the same belief when looking at myself.

It's been really interesting to hear other people PhD journeys, especially with children - because I've been working remotely I think I have been pretty isolated, and yes I think sickness and exhaustion is playing a role, plus current lockdown and wider stresses we are all under don't help.

Thanks for the CV tips, as I hadn't included anything about maternity leave or sickness. Actually I have also been working as a PGR teaching assistant (only exam/ essay marking) but I can at least include that on my CV also.

I've been using mumsnet for some time now and only just realised the academics corner existed! I wish I had known sooner..!

Here is to a brighter future and never giving up

Just to add to all the above, it's worth checking out if you're university has a PhD specialist careers service- lots do. They'll have a lot of experience on how to explain your PhD to non academic employers of that's the way you want to go

When I did mine 20 years ago, nearly everyone in our department stretched theirs out to 5 years instead of 3 as they offered research and teaching work to the current pHD students.

I did my PhD within the 3 years of government funding (ESRC) but I was single, child free, and much of it was based upon data I gathered while researching my masters. Based upon what I saw in my uni many students took 4-5 years to complete, some of whom were fully funded. Working part time is always a struggle, not only financially but keeping all those different plates spinning. 5-8 years is more usual for part time.

The posters who say most employers have no real idea how long a doctorate should take are correct. Nor do they realise the advanced level of the necessary research and depth of analysis. The average thesis is between 80-100,000 words (mine was 150,000). Most students spend the first 3 years on data collection and analysis and then 1-2 years on writing up. Achieving what you have done in 6 years with all your other commitments and setbacks is something to be proud of.

Good luck with your viva!

Well the people I knew who took the longest to complete (10 and 14 years!) were both men so ignore anyone making stupid comments. You've created two whole new people as well as completing a PhD which is an amazing achievement