Considering PHD...can't believe it.....

[Bearnecessity]

Hi there, I honestly thought I was done with academia but I think this may have been mum knackerdness....I have bought my ds up now 18 on my own.I have been a teacher for 15 years and I can feel myself thinking more and more about doing a PHD would I have to do an MA first, I was told my PGCE is equivalent masters level? I know I should just approach admissions depts about this I just thought I would ask here first. I have surprised myself with this...if you had asked me five years ago I would have been all 'God no....'My ds is doing his degree from home at the moment and I think it is rubbing off.....

I would do a Masters first I think to see if you like studying and writing up research projects. It may be that a Masters in a new/interesting area is enough to scratch that itch, it may be you love it and want to carry on into a PhD. Or you could write it into a book, I know someone who did a Masters and is going this route (especially if you don't need a PhD for work).

I wouldn't take someone on who hadn't studied at least a bit recently for this reason, a PhD is a huge undertaking and I'd want proof they were intellectually able enough to do it (so a high grade in the Masters like a Distinction) and that they were committed to doing it. Completely honestly, I don't take self-funded students now although I do have one currently, it's too much hard work for me for someone who probably doesn't quite have the academic smarts and may struggle along the way.

I hope I haven't been overly negative, just explaining it from a supervisor's perspective! I also get far more invitations to be a supervisor these days than I could possibly take, so that's why I've got fussier over the years.

Any Masters take your fancy?

You can go straight to PhD though, I don't want to say you can't, for example, the OU allow it.

I agree it would be best to do a Masters first. I wouldn't accept someone on to our PhD programme without a high grade on a Masters, though there may be variation across disciplines. While a PGCE is a postgraduate qualification, it's not equivalent to a Masters.

I've just submitted a PhD application. I'm currently in my second year of a part time MSc. The application process for my PhD and funding is pretty intense and I spend a huge amount of time on the proposal, application, contacting potential supervisors and external organisations for support/collaboration. I couldn't have done this without having been a current student and the support and advice from my course tutor. I would definitely recommend doing a master's first.

I'm doing an MA in education through OU. 3 years part time. Highly recommend!

Chiming in with the same advice that with some exceptions (such as a science-based undergrad degree where you're joining a lab to do a defined PhD research project) you'd be advised to do a research-focused Master's first if you want to ensure success at the PhD.

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. I see that it is probably more sensible to consider an MRes and PHD , I am thinking about Health and Wellbeing from a humanities, cultural theory angle. I don't think I could self-fund I'd have to try and secure some kind of funding as ferocious as it is trying to do that.Kyra ...your MA with the OU sounds great I am glad you are enjoying it, I hear so many positive things about OU.I don't want to do my further study in 'education 'as such I want to do something a bit different.I did my PGCE at Bath Spa which is close to me...I still can't believe I am giving it such serious thought...oh and you haven't been negative Popping..a good dose of realism never hurts anyone.

I was told my PGCE is equivalent masters level?
No it's not. It's a postgrad certificate, not a degree.

Given your long professional experience, you probably could enrol straight into a PhD - although a good university would probably require enrolment in the MPhil first, and then a transfer or upgrade to Doctoral candidature.

The reason for suggesting an MA first is that going from no formal study to writing 80,000 words is a leap. The MA trains you in how you approach a substantial piece of independent work, how you work with a supervisor, how you develop a research project, and so on.

You could also look into a 'professional doctorate' - they're not like the pure PHD - there's a lot more coursework, and hand-holding at the start (more like a US PhD), as they're designed for working professionals. There are quite a few education ones which might interest & excite you. If you go down this route, check what ways there are to transfer to a standard PhD candidature, or to a Masters qualification, if the PhD doesn't feel right - so you have flexibility to match your programme to what you can manage.

Sounds an exciting next stage!

I'd have to try and secure some kind of funding as ferocious as it is trying to do that

Frankly? I think it would be difficult to jump straight from 18 years away from formal education into a funded PhD programme.

In my field & Department (smallish area of Humanities) we generally fund 2 students a year in a combination of research council (AHRC) funding and university funding, and others come in with government funding from their own countries (we have several funded Chinese students). To get an AHRC studentship, applicants generally need:

• First Class Honours at UG level
• Distinction (or possibly Merit) at Masters level
• a really well-thought through, feasible, potential for originality, topic.

The thing about doing a 1 year (full-time) Masters is that it gives you a chance to develop your PhD topic - think of it as preliminary research/literature review.

There is very very little public funding for Masters degrees any more, unfortunately. Could you get sponsorship from your school or LA?

And if you're looking at moving away from your field of professional experience (as you say you want to), then it would be extremely unlikely that you'd get funding without a Masters.

To be honest, I'd suspect any university/supervisor who would take you would be doing it for the fees, not in your interests. Most people don't realise what a PhD entails. It's not like anything you'll have done before. You need preparation & training, particularly if you want to switch fields.

Depending on what you want to do with further training & education in areas of health & well-being, I'd be thinking you'd need to go back to undergrad level in a health sciences field to get the basics.

But I'm a believer in expertise (unlike Mr Gove)

Hi Queen of Air, thank you for your input, you make some good points. Fortunately, a few of my friends and family have done PHDs so I do have some idea what I would be letting myself in for and from my working life I am really not afraid or intimidated by hard work , interestingly, I have known a few PHD qualified people take up teaching and then give it up because they cannot cope with level of work required to do it properly. I do have a first class honours degree to fall back on. I am warming to the idea of a Masters......hmmmm lots to investigate....

There is very very little public funding for Masters degrees any more, unfortunately.

I'm surprised to read this. Surely the Government Postgraduate Loans scheme is still extant?

OP I think PhD supervisors might want a bit more evidence than 'a few of my friends and family' or 'I'm not afraid of hard work'. (Though 15 years teaching is not to be sniffed at of course.) An MA does sound like a good plan.

Crikey, you have got nasty Poule...what is that all about?

That's a loan, not a studentship, which is what we generally mean by 'public funding.' A studentship never has to be paid back, and covers tuition fees and a slim (but manageable) living allowance.

And @Bearnecessity it's not so much the hard work (that's a given), but the nature of the work.

@Bearnecessity

I'm also a teacher and am doing an EdD. I work four days and find that it works really well around teaching. Because we're (almost) all teachers on the course, the course fits really well around terms, which makes it easier to juggle.

I also found having the introductory modules have really helped me get back into academic research / writing (I did my masters 15 years ago), to update my knowledge of current academic debates in education and widen my understanding of the subject before I commit to my thesis. Perhaps worth consideration?

Interesting Sarah....definitely worth consideration thank you. I take my hat off to you, that is an impressive work ethic especially given the nature of the work as well.

Bearnecessity - It wasn't meant nastily at all - apologies if it came across that way. I was simply (clearly too obliquely) agreeing with previous posters that potential supervisors would want some proof of your capability for research beyond your willingness to undertake it. And that an MA would provide that. (For you, too.)

(Clearly, despite earning a living (ha ha) from words, I have lost the knack of using them after nearly a year of talking to myself ...)

Hi, I did a "1+3" - the first year as a Masters and then moving onto the PhD (if you get through the Masters well enough) and was fortunate enough for that to be funded. It worked really well as the Masters year gets you ready and is "connected" to your PhD. I had never really planned a PhD but in my 40s and with 2 kids I am so happy I took the plunge! Good luck