How long to give lecturer to reply to email?

[academias]

I graduated a year ago and recently emailed my undergraduate dissertation supervisor to ask if she would be able to be one of my academic references for some applications.

I emailed last week to ask this which was four weeks before the deadline. It has been exactly a week and I have not yet had a reply and now that puts it at three weeks before the application deadline.

This lecturer is the one who knows me best academically as they were my supervisor, work in the area I am hoping to go into and they taught me during all the relevant modules. However they are also very senior and very busy so I was anticipating there would be a delay in their response and I completely understand.

When would it be polite to send a reminder? Should I just forward the original email or write a new one?

It’s a pity that you didn’t ask her for both references at the same time. In reality, the body of the reference will be pretty much the same for both. Just ask quickly now, along the lines of

“Apologies, I should also have asked if I may Kirstein you as referee for my job applications in X area. I am likely to be applying for ... “

and give her a broad frame of jobs, frequency of application, and time line.

Just wanted to say OP that I never or very rarely turn down reference requests. I have probably taught over a thousand students over the past 8 years in academia. I obviously don’t remember every single one of them in detail. If it’s been a few years, I ask for a CV with recent achievements.

I wish the practice of references would be eliminated or at least reduced. Many places won’t even give a reference beyond confirmation of dates you worked somewhere and the whole practice massively favours middle class affluent people with good contacts.

I will always try to help because I’ve been there myself. I nearly didn’t apply for my Phd because I thought I couldn’t get a reference. It had been 6 year since my masters and I assumed they’d all forgotten about me (I was quite a quiet student). Now that I work in academia, I know that’s rubbish. I got very high grades and was one of the top performers both at undergrad and in my college at masters level. Of course they’d have supported my PhD application. In the end, I went for work colleagues as referees but it still annoys me that I was so lacking in confidence at the time (I still am btw!)

I would send her an email saying ‘I hope it’s okay if I put you down as a referee for some future job applications too’. One thing though is whether this person is your personal tutor or just your dissertation supervisor. If she’s not your PT, you should ideally get your actual PT to do run of the mill job references because that’s part of the remit. It’s different for phd apps because the referee needs knowledge of your academic work but this isn’t the case for paid work.

What @Pota2 says. I always do a reference if asked - I know how important they are.

My PhD application deadline is tomorrow and neither referees have submitted their reference yet. I last sent a reminder on Monday, I'm worried sending a reminder now would come off poorly as it would give them one day to be able to write the reference?

I know it's silly but I can't sleep at night because I am so worried about this. I have worked so much on preparing my application and the department won't consider it unless I have references submitted before the deadline. It's such a busy, hectic time for academics, I wish they would allow the students to submit the references or give more leeway, but I know references are an important part of the admissions process...

It's not true that applications won't be considered if the references aren't received on time. It's quite common for references to be late, and for the department to have to chase these.

Did they both say they would do it? Send them a reminder email NOW and say that you have checked the status of your application and the reference hasn’t been done and that you sincerely hope that they can do it by the deadline. It’s out of order of the academics to say they will do it and then not.

Also, contact the Phd admissions tutor at the university you are applying and explain the situation. I reckon you might find flexibility there. Universities want phd students and the Covid crisis has affected lots of people in terms of being able to meet deadlines. I think something can probably be sorted (unless this is a hard deadline for a funding body).

But please please do contact the academics who said they would do your reference. They can hopefully complete it today.

Also, if this were me and I’d accidentally left it this late, I would move hell and high water to get it done on time. Yes, we are all busy but you do not promise to do something and then let someone down at the last minute.

Also worth sending emails to all other lecturers you have in the hope that someone can do a really quick one for you. Ugh! Sympathy. Hope it gets sorted.

Thank you for the replies. I have sent a reminder email now so hopefully they will manage to do it in time.

I feel so guilty adding to their workload but they both did say they were happy to be my referees.

Awkwardly I also need another reference for a job application but I can't think about asking for that until this PhD application is sorted.

Don’t feel bad at all - they are the ones who messed up. If you say you will do something like this, you do it (unless the circumstances are exceptional). I hope you get them ok and that you get accepted for the PhD.

Still no response. I'm feeling so down and frustrated. Applications are automatically rejected if the references have not been uploaded so there is no way around this.

The irony is I have had to deal with a complete lack of response from the university I am applying to's admin team when I have sent time-sensitive emails about my application because the admin department is working from home due to COVID, yet they cannot give applicants and their referees the same courtesy given the current situation. Argh.

Oh well, onto the next one...

How annoying! I would actually consider making a complaint about the two academics who promised to write you a reference and failed to do so without any explanation. I think it’s quite a serious breach of duty on their part.
And although it’s an automatic rejection by the online system, could you contact the admissions tutor, explain the situation and see if anything can be done? In my experience they can usually get round things like that. Universities aren’t really overrun by PhD applications and if they want to supervise you they shouldn’t care if you miss the deadline by a few days. Please do contact them to check.

One reference has submitted a reference now, the other still hasn't. I'm a little upset as in the original email she said she was very happy to be a reference, if she had said actually I'm a little too busy sorry it would have been a little bit of a set-back but I would have most likely been able to find someone else.

I have contacted the admissions department to see if there is any kind of grace period with submitting references but they take around a week to reply because of COVID. However, I already know the answer will be no as it's written in black and white on their website, but it's worth a shot given that COVID-19 has made academic's life much more busy and stressful and maybe they will sympathise with that?

I feel so stressed because I know when my reference finally catches up on her emails she will be mortified for missing the deadline and I feel really guilty and embarrassed even though it's not my fault.

Deadline has officially passed now. I'm so upset as it was my top choice. My next deadline is in around 10 days so I will email them first thing Monday and hope and pray she can at least do the reference for that one, otherwise I will have to find someone else.

Sorry I'm using this thread to off-load it seems.

what about, just adding the person down either way, to make sure you make the deadline , as you say they add more credentials to your application ?

@Hawkins001

what about, just adding the person down either way, to make sure you make the deadline , as you say they add more credentials to your application ?

I have her down on the application as she did agree to be my referee but she has not uploaded the reference in time unfortunately.

ah i see, i know sometimes they just ask for a referee, then get the references later on, but its frustrating and a pickle if you need the actual reference too especially given the current situation.

Do you have contact details for your prospective supervisor? If so, I'd be tempted to suggest dropping them a polite email to let them know what happened (i.e. you're very interested in the position, both your referees agreed to provide references but one just missed the deadline) and ask if there's anything that can be done about it.

PhD supervision is a lot of work over at least three years, so supervisors want to find the students who are the very best fit for the research project. As a PhD supervisor, I would not be happy if my admissions dept being rigid about one slightly late reference was preventing me from seeing an application from a good candidate. Even if there isn't a way to over-rule admissions, the supervisor could keep your name on file in case the studentship needs advertising again - we've had studentships where the first advert did not get applications from anyone we thought had the right set of skills and we've had to re-advertise.

Can I check whether this is an application for just admission or if it's for a scholarship as well? I definitely think there is potential flexibility and you should communicate with the academic staff member in charge of Phd admissions, not the admin staff in the admissions department. It's an early deadline if this is for entry next September so there will be plenty of other opportunities you can apply for if you don't get this one. At PhD level, it's not the same as application for a masters or undergrad where they just want bums on seats. They will only accept you at PhD if they want to supervise you, and if they want to supervise you, you may find that they are willing to bend the rules a little bit. My institution is not an RG and not particularly prestigious, but not terrible either. We reject 90% of the PhD applications we receive because we don't have that many potential supervisors and most proposed projects aren't up to scratch. Before you apply for a PhD, you should contact the proposed supervisor directly to run the project by them and get a sense for whether they would be interested in supervising. You then have a point of contact who you can get in touch with if things like this happen.

I would definitely get in touch with the academic too and tell her that due to her failure to upload the reference, you have now been rejected from your PhD. I think her behaviour is pretty out of order. She could have said no from the outset, but she didn't. Once she realised she couldn't do it, she should have got in touch with you as early as possible to enable you to find someone else. Pretty shoddy behaviour (I take my comments back if she's actually been hospitalised with Covid or something).

But maybe see it as a lesson for how to approach future applications- ie speak to the supervisor first, get them on board and fighting your corner (you're more likely to get internal funding that way) and then do your online application. Approach referees in very good time in advance. Hopefully this academic will want to make it up to you for messing up and will write glowing references for you.

Thank you for all of your replies. It's so helpful to chat on here as none of my family/friends are in academia so they don't understand all the hoops you have to jump through when applying.

It is a funded studentship programme. The funding deadline isn't until January but the course deadline has now passed. It's for a doctoral training programme (don't want to be too outing with the details), so you don't apply to a specific supervisor/project but the programme in general. The fact the funding deadline hasn't passed gives me a little bit of hope.

I have seen that there is an email specifically for the programme so I will try emailing them and see what they say. It's a very competitive course though so they probably won't enable any kind of extension but it's worth a try.

I will email the referee on Monday about the next upcoming deadline and hopefully she can reach that deadline in time. She is very senior in the department so I can see how my references are low priority given her other responsibilities so I can see how this has happened.

I have thought more about it and have decided not to mention it to my reference. At the end of the day they are doing me a favour by being a referee and they are incredibly busy. I don't like "confrontation", even if it is in the form of a politely worded reminder email. I word just rather forget about it and hope they don't notice. For some reason I feel really embarrassed like it was my fault. However, I did send reminder emails daily last week and I think anything more would have been over-the-top and demanding? I don't know.

I will send an email to her on Monday for the next deadline but not sure how to word it.

Something like: I have an upcoming deadline on X. I have sent the request through on Y and a reminder earlier this morning. Please let me know if you have any issues receiving it and/or reaching the deadline.

Does that sound ok?

That’s fair enough, OP. I don’t like confrontation either. But please don’t think about it in terms of her ‘doing you a favour’ by giving you a reference. It’s part of her job and if she commits to doing it, she needs to follow through on that. You’re not wasting her time either, as this is something she is paid to do. I would be tempted to find someone more reliable for future references though, as this sort of thing is incredibly stressful.

I sent a reminder email for the next deadline yesterday and have not had a reply again.

I know this academic well and know it would not be intentional and she is not disorganised, she is just very busy. However, she did agree and I did give her an outline of when the deadlines would be in my initial email. I know for her it is very low priority but for me it is my entire future on the line.

I am feeling so stressed out and run down from this because it is completely out of my control. It's too late to ask someone else and I'm not even sure who to ask. She was my personal tutor for three years and my dissertation supervisor so she knows me really well.

I'm still gutted about missing the last deadline, I don't know how I will cope if I miss a second deadline as I had only shortlisted 5 or so to apply to in the first place.

I give up with this academic completely. I'm so frustrated.

I'm going to email someone else and ask if they will be my reference for my next applications. It's not enough notice to ask them for the Friday deadline so I will just have to let that deadline go.

I'm a little worried as no other lecturer will be able to comment on my research experience and no other lecturer knows me that well but oh well. I have one lecturer who once gave me 90% for an essay so I will ask him.

Sorry to hear that OP. She sounds incredibly flaky, unless there is a backstory of illness here. I think you are better off with someone else doing it. It’s a really poor show from the other academic though. Doing student references is part of the job. Also, if you can’t do it due to time constraints, then don’t agree to it. Be upfront and allow the student to find someone else.

A miracle happened and my reference submitted her reference just a few hours before the deadline! Luckily I saw the email in time and had my application ready to submit just in case. Such a relief!