Applying for PhDs - does the prestige of the university affect my chances?

[phdapplicant]

I have written a list of the PhDs I want to apply for (I am in the sciences). However several of them are at Oxford and Cambridge. I am so close to crossing them off of my shortlist because I don't feel like Oxbridge material.

However I don't know if it is different at PhD level as I know no matter which university you apply to it is competitive. I also know it sounds silly but I would feel embarrassed having a reference request from Oxford or Cambridge land in the inbox of my referees as I feel like I am nowhere near their level, academically. I am from a working class background, the first of my family to go to university and I just feel completely intimidated.

However on paper everything looks fine. I meet all of the academic requirements. The only thing letting my application down is the universities that I graduated from are quite average universities, but I did get a first and distinction whilst there.

I am not sure whether my worries are justified or whether I should just swallow the fear and just apply.

Feel the fear and do it anyway! (that's a book title, it's a really good book, get a copy)

People move a lot between ug and PhD, I would apply, it's not remotely embarrassing for a ref request as it means you are shortlisted usually.

Funded PhDs are always highly competitive, which is why it doesn't make sense to take yourself out of the race for several of them. Also, a bit of luck is often involved, I know several people who didn't get one through the classic competition for a post, but stepped in at the last minute, a candidate dropped out, you have to be in it to win it and all that.

self-funded are applying for competitive studentships?

I know someone who was self-funded (well, parent-funded) to get his PhD from Cambridge. They were happy to take his money. He was a sharp person, btw, but not amazing background. U-grad degree from somewhere like Reading.

self funded OR applying for...

@Poppingnostopping

Feel the fear and do it anyway! (that's a book title, it's a really good book, get a copy)

People move a lot between ug and PhD, I would apply, it's not remotely embarrassing for a ref request as it means you are shortlisted usually.

Funded PhDs are always highly competitive, which is why it doesn't make sense to take yourself out of the race for several of them. Also, a bit of luck is often involved, I know several people who didn't get one through the classic competition for a post, but stepped in at the last minute, a candidate dropped out, you have to be in it to win it and all that.

That's a good point about them being competitive so I need to apply to as many as I can. I think I will go for it.

@lljkk

self-funded are applying for competitive studentships?

I know someone who was self-funded (well, parent-funded) to get his PhD from Cambridge. They were happy to take his money. He was a sharp person, btw, but not amazing background. U-grad degree from somewhere like Reading.

I am applying to studentships

What is the worst that could happen? You don't get it, you feel a bit of mild embarassment for a while and then you move on and forget about it.

The best that can happen is that you get it and it opens up huge opportunites for you.

I've been on several interview panels for PhD studentships, though I don't have experience of going through applications to get to that stage. Lots of academics, especially in science, aren't from the UK and won't have the same innate ranking of unis as someone who went through the undergrad system here. What we're looking for at interview is curiosity, work ethic, a demonstrated interest in the particular programme (even better if you've got your eye on one or more potential supervisors and you can talk about their work and why you want to be in their lab). We also like to see a willingness to listen without getting defensive. Personality matters - no supervisor wants to take on a student who will be a drain on their mental and emotional energy for 3-4 years, no matter how brilliant they appear. We want people to work with, who can develop into future collaborators and colleagues. Good luck!

@TheMShip

I've been on several interview panels for PhD studentships, though I don't have experience of going through applications to get to that stage. Lots of academics, especially in science, aren't from the UK and won't have the same innate ranking of unis as someone who went through the undergrad system here. What we're looking for at interview is curiosity, work ethic, a demonstrated interest in the particular programme (even better if you've got your eye on one or more potential supervisors and you can talk about their work and why you want to be in their lab). We also like to see a willingness to listen without getting defensive. Personality matters - no supervisor wants to take on a student who will be a drain on their mental and emotional energy for 3-4 years, no matter how brilliant they appear. We want people to work with, who can develop into future collaborators and colleagues. Good luck!

Thank you for your reply, that was really helpful.

Can I ask a quick question regarding interviews, do the questions tend to be quite scientific and specific to the topic (e.g. what do you know about this mechanism or this protein)? I am trying to prepare for interviews but I am not sure how much I will be expected to know. Obviously I will familiarise myself with the lab's research and the field in general, but I am not sure how much depth and detail I need to know.

@NotDavidTennant

What is the worst that could happen? You don't get it, you feel a bit of mild embarassment for a while and then you move on and forget about it.

The best that can happen is that you get it and it opens up huge opportunites for you.

This is true, thank you. :)

Can I ask a quick question regarding interviews, do the questions tend to be quite scientific and specific to the topic (e.g. what do you know about this mechanism or this protein)? I am trying to prepare for interviews but I am not sure how much I will be expected to know. Obviously I will familiarise myself with the lab's research and the field in general, but I am not sure how much depth and detail I need to know.

Usually we ask the applicants to prepare a short presentation on a research topic they're interested in or have worked on (e.g. if they have done a Masters by research, Honours project, industry), or sometimes we ask them to present a summary and critique of a journal article. In my field (bioinformatics) we are often cross-training people as it's at the intersection of molecular biology and computational research, so it's rare to ask about domain specific knowledge. The ideal is a student who will drive their project themselves with minimal guidance to keep them on track - a PhD is supposed to create an independent researcher, after all!

So the questions we ask are trying to tease out whether or not we think applicants will be a) eventually independent, b) focused, and c) mentally tough enough to handle a multi year project. I don't mean that we aren't supportive of people with mental illnesses or that if there are problems, we won't do everything we can to help. I just mean that it's a big undertaking and even if everything goes really well, the weight of the project itself can be daunting. I've had one student drop after the first year because they realized they didn't actually like such long projects and were happier with shorter term things - they went into consulting and it was an ok resolution, but the hard truth is that it was a waste of scarce funding and my time.

You're doing the right thing by reading papers from the labs and looking at what they're working on right now. Our panels invariably ask questions like: why do you want to work here, specifically, as opposed to somewhere else? what excites you about this project (or the institute if it's a general admission programme)? what's your motivation for a PhD? do you have any questions for us? Prepare for those, especially the last, as that's often where applicants fall down. Definitely have a question or two to ask about the research itself - research group leaders are human, we love to be asked about the work we care so passionately about. It's ok to bring in notes to our interviews, we like people who are prepared.

@TheMShip Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that. That was really helpful.

@phdapplicant My pleasure! IME someone who is asking these sorts of questions and preparing in this way is someone who genuinely wants to do a PhD and isn't just doing it because it's 'the next thing' or pressured into it from others. I always have time for encouraging people like that to join the next generation of researchers.

@TheMShip Thank you, that is so kind of you to say. :) It makes me feel a little less nervous about the application process.

@phdapplicant chipping in to add that while imposter syndrome is common (see my name ), bear in mind how far you’ve gone despite not having been bankrolled proves you can manage the hard sustained work a PhD can be. And as for prestige’s of your current institution, most academics will be interested in the department’s reputation more than the university’s. Assuming you’ve been taught well, and that you demonstrate the level of interest you’ve clearly got, that shouldn’t be an obstacle.

OP, I did my DPhil at Oxford, am from an extremely WC background and the first in my family to go to university, and my first degrees are from somewhere considerably less prestigious. I’m in the humanities, but had a lot of scientist friends through my college, and we were a very mixed bunch, in terms of social class and nationality. Go for it.

Obviously I don't know what your personal circumstances are, so this might be out of the question, but have you tried looking abroad?

I went abroad for my PhD, partly because there was no way I wanted to decide on my PhD topic before I'd really even started the research component of my masters. I think it's turned out to the the best decision I ever made, even if it was a bit of an accident initially!

The application process is a bit easier because European STEM PhDs tend to have money assigned to a project, so you know exactly who and what you're applying for, and then the competition is less fierce. It matters much less which undergrad university you went to because outside the UK no one makes a distinction between universities below Oxbridge. It's also worth considering that in some countries PhD students are paid much better than in the UK (particularly germanic countries) and you often get 4 years of funding, maternity leave, pension etc. It sounds shallow, but having some cash so you can go on holiday and get a decent flat makes the whole process much more pleasant.

Can I just give my penny's worth?

I have spent 25 years, yes, 25 not applying for certain roles at certain places as I'm not "good enough for them". I recently took the plunge and applied to a top and I mean top institution across the country -after 6 interviews and it was intense -I was snapped up. The role I applied for has been upgraded for me. etc.

Don't think am I good enough ? the right calibre? look at you -what can they OFFER you to encourage you to go?