Applying for a PhD at Oxbridge - am I missing anything?

[SweetLoves]

I have seen some a funded PhD I want to apply to at Cambridge (I am in the sciences so it is a specific project I will be applying for rather than writing a grant). However the idea of applying there is making me feel quite anxious and like I am not of the right sort of calibre they are looking for.

My good points are: I have an undergraduate and master's degree (first class and distinction respectively). My master's project has some similarities to the project. I wrote a long report on the area of the proposed project which I got 80% for so I have good background knowledge of the area.

My bad points are: The only research experience I have is part of my degree dissertations. I don't have any other relevant work experience outside of that. Both universities I went to are quite average and neither rank particularly highly. However I did win academic awards for being top of my cohort.

I will probably apply anyway as I think it will be good experience and you never know unless you try, but I was wondering from academics what kind of things do you look for when assessing potential PhD candidates and would anything I have written dissuade you from my application?

Thank you

I was recently asked to write reference for someone applying for Cambridge fellowships. I find Cambridge amusing (not in a good way).

What I think they want to see evidence of is * Ambition *. They are also snooty as fuck. It's a privilege to you that you were even allowed to apply. They are notorious (colleague in office who came from there as many stories) for being incredibly silo'd & a bit cut-throat when it comes to research projects; my institution constantly encourages collaboration across departments and research groups; in Cambridge, Scientists are very cagey about telling each other what they are up to. Very competitive. Team leaders have their little fiefdoms and view all other Team Leaders as likely to poach their best workers or best research ideas given half a chance. "Colleagues" are your constant rivals for best labs, scientists, grants, etc. They view this rivalry as a good thing.

All that is their normal culture.

I need to nominate other scientists able to evaluate the applicant's work. I am expected to be acutely aware of 'Leaders' in my field and even to have leverage to get them to read the applicant's work. It's all about Networking. Maybe Networking is something ambitious people do. I wouldn't know - I'm not ambitious!! I'm going to struggle to nominate the Eminently Qualified.

So that's my advice; show you are ambitious, network extensively, have fierce confidence, show that you know who the "Leaders" are in your research area, have a strong vision where you want your career to go, don't expect to collaborate without evaluating any collaborators as potential rivals. Acknowledge their inherent superiority.

Oh, and they may do stupid stuff like form 9 person panels for interviews that give you no personal feedback or say you need to supply 5 printed copies of your application (I suspect they don't know how to operate a photocopier or forward pdfs). Any way that Cambridge does recruitment - is right, can't be inefficient, can't be daft or arrogant. They deserve to be arrogant -- they're Cambridge.

ps: I expect other MN academics will scold & say I'm a weirdo fantasist.

No responses?!

I can't really advise as my relationship with both Ox and Bridge is/has been in a different academic context, and not in the sciences. But I can tell you that if you've won awards you should apply with confidence. (In my own subject I was once asked, by one of them, phoning for info on a postgrad thing, what prizes I had won. I went elsewhere and now have prizes ...)

You don't say how old you are relative to your degrees. Knowing nothing about it I guess relevant work experience matters less if you graduated recently, but might need explanation if you left university twenty years ago.

How weird - there were no posts at 7.55 am!

I would always say give it a go but we warned. A friend of mine was accepted to do a PhD at Oxford and received a letter telling her how lucky she was to have been offered a place.

Oxbridge isn't particularly more competitive than other top UK universities in my field. Strong students usually need to apply to several places to get an offer (as the field is competitive) but there is no huge barrier between Oxbridge and the rest.

A friend of mine was accepted to do a PhD at Oxford and received a letter telling her how lucky she was to have been offered a place.

This sounds a bit strange. In decades at Oxbridge I've never heard of a letter going out with that kind of phrasing.

Oh, I think it's quite common for any letter to say you're lucky. I applied for postgrad places all over and as I recall, a standard bit along with 'we're delighted to offer' was to tell you how competitive it had been and how lucky you were. I never thought it was rude? I definitely had one from a distinctly non top-ranked university.

Anyway.

Not a scientist, but I would say apply. You've nothing to lose, and if you're going into academia, having a PhD from a good 'name' can be helpful. IME Oxbridge are also good at getting their PhDs through quite quickly, which (sadly) is getting to be more and more important.

In my field, someone with your background would sound good - you've got the right interests and excellent grades.

Oh, and - my DP is in sciences and worked in labs at Cambridge for a few years, and neither of us would recognise @MedSchoolRat's description of them. I am sure it varies hugely by discipline. But DP reckons her last PI was one of the nicest people she's worked with, and the whole team were really good people. So perhaps there's hope!

ex Cbdge colleague says within his group was incredibly supportive, too. He didn't realise about the silo'ing & rivalry between groups either, until at least a yr after working at CU. It was casual conversations with other adults, say at child's swimming lessons, that went like this:

"So where do you work?"
-Up at the Science Research Park, for Institute X.
"I work there too. For Research Group Y. What kind of things are you working on at X, if you don't mind me asking?"
-We work on ABC.
"Gosh! We work on ABC too. Does that mean you're using methods DEF? My supremo PI is Bev Smith. Does she ever collaborate with your PI?"
-We do a lot of methods. My Lab ultra PI is Joe Bloggs. But he doesn't work with Bev. She got a research grant Joe wanted.
"Oh."

Mine wasn't in a science but I did my PhD at Cambridge (I was going to say recently, but actually it's been 7 years since I handed in so apparently I don't understand time!). I had been a Cambridge undergrad and so had maybe a third of my cohort, but the rest came from a wide range of universities. There was absolutely no correlation between undergrad university and success either during or after the PhD (I, for instance, was a bit crap). Apply and don't feel apologetic for your previous degrees, feel proud of your awards.

do definitely apply.

one thing I look for in PhD apps is that the candidate has actually read some of my papers & has an idea of what the project is about. It is always surprising how many candidates just want to 'do a phd' without knowing any details of the specific project.

you sound like you have good knowledge of the area, so make that clear in your application.

OP - have you had any contact with the people involved?

This may be completely unhelpful but in my (tiny, niche, non-science) area of study it would be normal to have an informal chat with a potential supervisor to get a better idea of whether you'd be a good fit (research wise) for each other. But perhaps in your area that's much more obvious (or maybe there are hundreds of applicants) so applications are more at arm's length?

Sorry - above isn't as clear as I thought it was. I mean a preliminary, informal chat (teasing out nuances not apparent in the written description) before making a formal application.

(It does save time if you discern they're looking for someone with a slightly different profile ...)