When do you think universities will open?

[googlepoodle]

I would think they would be definitely be working to a September deadlines for the new academic year.
But do we think any sooner? I am professional services staff and currently working from home.

My twins have enjoyed Bristol and this is their last term -0 term starts on Monday. Some of their friends are in Bristol and some with parents (most with parents although both their rented houses for which I have paid in total £3000 rent for this term and will not get back) at least have one student in -one with his girl friend who moved in before lock down etc so at least they are not empty I suppose and someone else's child is getting the benefit of all that rent paid and we do hope lock down will end and mine can go back and enjoy the rest of the very last term which they will never get back again.

I don't feel lecturers have ruined this last year at Bristol due to strikes because not all my sons' lecturers have been on strike and they seem to have very good support, quick replies to emails etc. The day my son submitted his dissertation just after Easter his supervisor acknowledged it by email.

However going entirely on-line is not what parents and students pay for. I left home for university at 17 and part of that experience was learning to live separately as an adult, the personal freedom and meeting other people etc. You would not get that with an on line correspondence course. I was a very active participant in my law degree - never missed a lecture etc and won prizes etc BUT a huge part too for me was all my clubs and hobbies, touring abroad with the chamber choirand much else.

If the residential element goes and the courses are on line that is a very different thing for students and those of us who are reasonably well off presumably would if flights resume then be choosing the better US universities or Dublin or if Scotland is unaffected Edinburgh for our teenagers rather than a correspondence course when they never leave their bed room in England.

To be fair Xenia many students, especially first in family, BAME and particularly Asian girls continue to live at home during University.

DD's College is not billing her hall fee next term. It is a wealthy College so not much issue. My university however is not charging students who can't return to campus and the deficit may break us irreparably.

However going entirely on-line is not what parents and students pay for.

The fees for our online programmes are significantly more than on-campus. Because of the flexible learning offered and the access to a global community of expert lecturers rather than just those who happen to be employed full time at the uni.

For all the reasons everyone has said we need to be relaxing lockdown by the new academic year. Certainly by October latest. There may have to be separate restrictions for those lecturers who are in vulnerable groups.
The news yesterday was also about a vaccine could be available in September being developed out of Oxford university. I thought it was a bit far fetched at first but from the report it seems to be further development of work they were already doing so that safety is further developed than just starting from scratch.

All pensions are impacted at the moment, wherever you work. In that we are all the same!

I think it’s optimistic to think there will be spare jobs waiting out there unless you work in science/medicine. Academic publishing for example is already badly hit.

Prices for online degrees would be an open market - Germany and Netherlands are already cheaper than Uk. I think universities who think business as usual are naive.

I am heartened by the amazing research info covid meds and testing so remain hopeful for business as usual - with shielding for those with underlying health issues.

@maleficent53 I don't think you're being very fair. The strikes would not have happened had the unions known there would soon be a global pandemic that would close down f2f teaching for the rest of the academic year.

Sadly I think a lot of the frustration from students and parents is the result of the Tories efforts to try to turn UK HE into a competitive marketplace. When courses are priced at £9250 per year, people think much of that must be profit for universities, given how much they've risen over the last 10-15 years. In actual fact the fees just replace much of the government funding that has been taken away - and often it doesn't even cover that. Universities do now broadly recognise students as customers, and the culture is much more corporate than it used to be. All of this contributes to giving the impression that students' every wish and need must be met above all else, even (indeed often) regulations, quality standards and the financial and physical limitations of what can reasonably and fairly be achieved.

Thinking of @catpoooffender comments - I wonder if it would be an idea for universities to scrap fees for the next academic year and for there to be a support package from the government for universities (a large group of universities have already approached the govt with an idea of support needed).
So although the next academic year may have to do some online lectures they will have a fee free year of university. It might stop deferrals and also keep things flowing forward.

Google poodle - that would keep my dd going this year. I have also told her she may save money on first term accom.

We will pay for those measures in higher taxes one day though

Unless the government also paid all the fees for international students, which seems even more unlikely than them paying for domestic ones, that would still leave a lot of universities with massive financial black holes. Everyone was already scrabbling to try and deal with the drop in EU students, but now they're predicting much lower numbers of students from outside the UK, even if they're technically able to come.

The Durham story: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/17/lecturers-condemn-durham-universitys-plan-to-shift-degrees-online (one of many articles across different papers). There's been some disagreement about whether this is a plan for next year - in which case, most universities seem to be planning for a temporary greater use of distance learning - or a permanent shift, which is the much more controversial idea.

The problem is that:
a) universities needing to be open in October doesn't mean they will be
b) being open on 1 October isn't enough. You need to know long enough in advance that you will be that students and staff can reasonably plan, and you need to know you're staying open. Neither of those can possibly be guaranteed. Opening for October and then a second shutdown starting for a second wave of the virus in November would be more destructive for universities than not opening in October at all.

If everyone defers this Sept, then the following year will be horribly competitive, they might not get in.

Mass deferrals this year will force an even bigger divide between the 'top' universities, who will be able to tell students they can't defer and keep their place because they'll be confident they'll fill that place next year and that students won't want to take that gamble, and everyone else who will need to hang onto students with all their might. Again, it will push some already shaky universities over the edge - but I don't see how you could possibly stop students deferring to stop that happening, either morally or just practically?

If they don’t get in next year then I guess they take their courses online with whichever uni is ready - might be a German one, a US one? New indies? A lot can happen in a year,

Do students want a degree from Durham, or do they want to have gone to Durham? Because I don't think they're quite the same thing.

That particular argument's been raging since the dark days when I did my degree at Durham back in the late 1990s with the Stockton campus!

As a mature student I'd love more online learning than dragging my arse 2 hours commute plus paying train station parking costs for a couple of hours of lectures (our timetabling elves are masters of really annoying chunks of trapped time in the day) - but I can't imagine the 18/19 year olds being anywhere near as happy with it - or half the lecturing staff who need to ring the IT helpdesk to learn how to restart a computer coping with it long-term - they've survived the short term by just releasing last year's recorded lectures but I wouldn't be happy paying fees for that to be an ongoing situation (deep respect to our most endearingly technophobic lecturer who really has pulled out all the stops to figure out how to work the online stuff though bless her!)

We still don't even know, as first years but in a healthcare course, what the fuck's happening with our assessments - the uni keeps issuing announcements, then 57 different caveats to those announcements, and then a minor u-turn and then a u-turn on that u-turn... it's a very stressful nightmare - I've deferred some of my assessments to the resit period on the basis that at least by then the lockdown should have relaxed to the point DH can take the kids for a long walk to the park and I might be able to do them in some form of peace, but the tone of the emails from uni indicate they seem to be planning to do resit period on-campus by then, which I personally can't see happening.

We're down a few placement hours already - I'm anticipating us being told we have to make those up in the summer vacation at some point - which has impacts for those of us with childcare which won't be considered by uni (and will be dismissed as "unreasonable whining" by the younger students) - I'm dreading that particular bombshell being dropped and mentally preparing for it.

With the way ours dragged its feet closing (considering it's one of the better ones in terms of online offerings and having the tech set up) - I can imagine they'll be open come what may as they are very much a "bums on seats" above all else institution.

An even bigger problem for universities than incoming students deferring is current students intermitting - you've got far fewer options to fill those places and the rate of non-return is always pretty high for intermitting students so there's a good chance you've lost them for good.

A few of my cohort are talking about intermitting. They are young. I'm 48 and I don't have time to waste. Online would be ok for me for a bit. I'd feel safer. However I had no plans to do a masters because I really need to work but I'm seriously considering it now if employment opportunities are slim in 2021. So the pandemic might see masters revenue from me.

deep respect to our most endearingly technophobic lecturer who really has pulled out all the stops to figure out how to work the online stuff though bless hEr

I’m rather worried that might be me! 😂😂

a large group of universities have already approached the govt with an idea of support needed

All of them - UUK represents the whole sector and its their proposal. And a very sensible one. Summary here: UUKK*

My dd is home from uni and finishing this year (year 2) online, she is hoping to be physically back in September

Sadly I think a lot of the frustration from students and parents is the result of the Tories efforts to try to turn UK HE into a competitive marketplace. When courses are priced at £9250 per year, people think much of that must be profit for universities, given how much they've risen over the last 10-15 years.

Completely agree with this. I think there's a view that tuition fees have been a boon for universities when really it means funding is the same or smaller than before, but students' expectations have become unreasonable. And that's before you mention parents, who suddenly seem to see themselves as stakeholders.

@VivaLeBeaver unless you like powerpoints with more wooshy bits of clipart flying in from every angle than the average space fight scene in a Star Wars it's not you!

We loves her - her powerpoints just are a... um... cinematic epic bless her. Half the time she's forgotten how many bits of animation she's got flying in so it surprises even her!

I wonder if it would be an idea for universities to scrap fees for the next academic year
So who's going to pay the lecturers to do the online teaching? Including the upper years who want to carry on.

Scrap fees is too extreme

Possible cuts/discount - maybe. I guess it depends on the uni - some are well off although many/most are not

The word on my office Zooms is that the high-ups where I work are debating whether or not fees would be reduced for online learning, especially for international students who pay such whopping fees in the first place. It'll be a decision taken a long way above my pay grade but I think it'll set a really dangerous precedent to put a price on F2F learning like that and they'll come to regret it if they do.

@DominaShantotto no, not me then. Phew.

I only have the clip art “appearing”, not swooshing in from angles!