Empathy/sympathy/compassion for students

[ZeroFucks]

I'm sorry that I'm starting lots of threads this week. I've been in my lecturing job for nearly a year so I'm coming up the review and thinking about how it's going.

One thing I'm struggling with is having empathy/sympathy/compassion for students. I wasn't expecting this part of the job if I'm honest. I've had no training in the pastoral side of my job yet I seem to have students regularly constantly expecting "emotional labour" from me. This week I had a student crying in my office over how hard a year she's had and how this is catching up with her deadlines approaching. Another student came to see me to ask for advice about her friend being sexually assaulted.

A colleague asdivsed me not to internalise their issues but I'm kind of having the opposite problem. Without wishing to sound crass and terrible and unkind, I don't really care and I don't really see it as my job to support the students with their personal and emotional issues.

That sounds crass and I don't mean it to sound that harsh. Of course I want my students to be happy and healthy and I'm happy to point them in the direction of support services but I feel as though it's crossing a line when they start crying and/or telling me their personal issues.

When they're seeking extensions to deadlines, I get why they'd say what's going on for them and this may cause them to get upset (though having said that, they should be going through the Chair of Examiners, not module leaders or individuals). But they're not always seeking extensions, it's as though they just see it as part of my job to be a listening ear for their unloading. But I don't really see this is part of my job.

Does anyone else find this?
How do you deal with this stuff?

I think part of the problem is that I'm very open and friendly with students but I don't know how to change that as that's the kind of person I am and I also find this pedagogically much more effective.

Sorry this is really long and I sound like a total cow!

The ethical responsibility to consider a learner's pastoral needs is the same, whether you are teaching an under-five or an adult. But yes, an adult student will (mostly) be independent, so encouraging self-help/self-referral is fine.

I imagine this would be covered in any qualification in teaching in HE? PGCHE?

As I said above, my qualification for teaching adults in F.E made this responsibility very clear.

I'm a student. The only time I've spoken to a lecturer when upset was because I needed help to be more boundaried at work as I was falling behind in my studies. She was really helpful and helped me plan my time for studying out so that work (also my placement) didnt leak into study time. That lecturer was my academic coach so was the relevant person imo.

My class is a mixture of mature and younger students. I actually get frustrated with a section of students who get extra help, extensions and lecturers that read their work first before hand in because they get upset about doing the work. We're literally spoon fed assignments sometimes and the same people are crying about not starting the weekend before due date and then get so much extra support. Their grades aren't particularly different to mine. It's just annoying that they get carried through their uni years. They aren't employable and being spoon fed their assignments has not equipped them with the resilience and motivation to just get on with it in the real world.

So why are female lecturers expected to deal with it but males aren’t? I know that male academics are just not doing anything like the emotional labour that the OP is doing - so why is it fine to heap all the extra work and responsibilities of getting it right for the sake of another adult’s well-being but not her male equivalents?

Be less available. You might want to include info in your email sig - office hours are between x and y and I will be available then to discuss assignments, for other support contact these people instead. And that doesn’t mean you’re neglecting your pastoral responsibilities- it’s about reinforcing professional boundaries.

There are enough students these days who will drain you dry if you let them with their constant requests for support and wanting you to engage with their problems of varying degrees of severity and only tenuously linked to the course. You don’t have to fix everything for them.

Did you see the other thread on being a full time academic and parent to young children?

I think Doctor the OP was quite clear. She's had no pastoral training and is, after a year in post, reflecting on her performance so far. Just as we are all encouraged to do.

Rather than pronouncing so dourly why not offer some helpful advice? A snippet of personal experience you think might be helpful?

Anything rather than the rather disapproving, judgemental utterance... so far removed from the attitude expected of any teacher, whichever key stage!

I don’t actually think that female lecturers are expected to deal with it more than male lecturers by the universities/managers.

Whether the students expect it/find the female lecturers more approachable is a different story. I’d like to think that students would go to their personal tutor rather than a random other lecturer (unless it’s something about a specific module). But I can well believe that female personal tutors are contacted by their students more than male personal tutors are.

I used to lecture at a university where lecturers had no personal tutor responsibilities and instead there was a non academic position who’s job title was something like “pastoral support” and everyone had to go to that Person. It worked well.

And when I did my PGcert in higher education, pastoral support wasn’t touched on at all.

Managers obviously give male and female staff the same allotted hours to deal with this stuff but it’s undeniable that women carry the greater burden (although some men obviously do engage with pastoral support). There’s loads of research on how students expect much more emotional support from women.

And although you’d like to think that students will go to their PT, in my experience, that isn’t true. I can’t count the number of times I’ve had students who are not my tutees coming to me with problems or asking me to write references because they feel I know them better and they’ve only met their male PT a couple of times. To be honest, I used to do the same when i was a student. I’d latch on to the female lecturers who seemed approachable and even remotely interested in me and my life and wouldn’t go near the ones who barely acknowledged my existence and made it clear that teaching was an inconvenience that they had to do in order to do research. Maybe this is my punishment for what I was like as a student 😂

I was speaking to a male colleague recently and mentioned having to buy new tissues for my office for emotional students. He looked shocked and said ‘what do you say to them to make them cry?’. He’s never had students come in and start crying. For me, it’s a fairly regular occurrence. That just brought it home to me how different our apparently identical jobs are.

Because there are higher expectations of
emotional support on women, if they fall short, managers will obviously notice, whereas they might still be doing more than male colleagues, on whom the same expectations don’t exist.

@Pota2 I had a very similar conversation with a male colleagues about tissues as well a couple of weeks ago. He'd never bought any for his office, I've been through about three boxes this year.

Students absolutely do latch to female academics more than men. Those hours we women spend listening to students' personal issues are hours that men are working on articles and grants. You know - the stuff which is visible, gets recorded and gets you promoted.

PP's have articulated this exactly right - it's university, not school. So, I agree that, as academics, we do have a duty of care and some degree of responsibility for pastoral support but absolutely not the same level as school teachers do. Also, yes, I agree that this is also part of a spoon-feeding culture.

I'm not saying I won't listen to students' concerns and problems. My issue that a lot of them seem incredibly trivial to me, the students are coming to me (and other academics) as their first port of call, and what they want from me isn't always related to their work (i.e. 'I'm having trouble with my boyfriend which is making me stressed which is stopping me meeting deadlines' but just 'I'm having problems with my boyfriend...')

I do know the structures of support at my university but when I ask students if they've been to support or to their college they generally say that they have but they couldn't gt an appointment or the person was crap etc. So they seem me as the next person to turn to.

I really appreciate all the advice on this, it's really helping to talk this stuff through. This pastoral side wasn't covered in my PGCAP.

Yeah, the support is shit at my uni too. I think they have about 10 staff members for 25,000 students or so. It’s almost impossible to get an appointment.

I think even at school ‘I’m having trouble with my boyfriend’ (unless related to an abusive relationship) isn’t stuff a teacher should deal with. It really isn’t. Yet women do get the brunt of this. I doubt very much students would approach their male tutors to tell them that their boyfriend has cheated.

I was about to say the same Viva. I mean, the whole exercise was a bit of a joke in general, but I've just finished mine and pastoral support wasn't mentioned at all.

I can understand students approaching a lecturer they feel they know. In our case, we have two personal tutor type roles. Students aren't taught by either until second year so even though details are provided etc, I can understand why students would approach someone they see every week.

I do know the structures of support at my university but when I ask students if they've been to support or to their college they generally say that they have but they couldn't gt an appointment or the person was crap etc. So they seem me as the next person to turn to

You need to keep referring them back gently but firmly. Because presumably they do need support and I think everyone on the thread is agreed that you can only provide a limited amount of help.

So can you refer them directly and copy the email into your line manager / head of year ? That way it will establish that there’s a demand for the service that’s not being met AND it makes the relevant people aware that the student has issues.

Now I know you will say that they are adults and it’s not your job. But I think that it is, partly. It’s also a means to an end, for that individual student and for the uni as a whole.

You have already said that student support services are inadequate. If you and each of your colleagues send referral emails to student services and get emails back saying “ we have no appointments for the next 4 weeks “ - you have proof of an issue that can be taken up at a higher level.

If the student knows that you will email, it will dissuade those who are making it up about “ no appointments “ because they CBA to go or would rather see you .

Once the university has heads of department jumping up and down saying “ results are going down here because students need super which they are not getting “ , then things will change.

Remember that student counsellors / advisors are relatively cheap compared to many other university resources.

On another point - you mentioned @ZeroFucks that boyfriend problems are not anything you need to deal with. I know it would be lovely to draw a line of demarcation around uni issues / not uni issues but life’s not like that for most undergraduates.

Three RL examples from the last year

1. Student’s BF problems were that BF from home was a drug dealer and was pressuring her to sell drugs on campus. She was scared to break up with him.

1. Students BF problem was that BF wanted her to move out of halls because fellow student was creepy. Creepy student then went on to rape Another female student in halls.

1. Students GF problem was that they were being stalked by their ex, who was a fellow undergraduate.

So all of these “ non uni problems “ were in fact very much uni problems.

Surely trained student peer-supporters could fill the gap between 'I'm having problems with my boyfriend' and 'My boyfriend is pressuring me to sell drugs on campus'?

My point was that “ I’m having BF problems “ can often hide a lot more. So saying “ Soz not my issue “ isn't an appropriate response from a member of staff.

Yes of course there’s a role for peer support. But that takes time and money. It’s not a cheap and easy option.

Members of staff ( especially well paid professional ones ) saying “ i did nothing because it wasn’t my job “ tend to get criticised at fatal accident enquiries / inquests.

No, it definitely isn't a cheap and easy option - but one PT member of staff can train, supervise and support dozens of student peer-supporters, who then take the pressure off academic staff and act as triage for student support services. It needs thought and initial investment/ongoing funding, but can work well over the longer term.

The issue I always pushed was that I was academic staff and knowing too much about a student's issues made it more likely that I would treat them differently and therefore accidentally dis / advantage them. That's one of the reasons acadmic staff are supposed to signpost support staff rather than try to offer support themselves.

For many having left school band finding teachers, lecturers who do NOT know about their emotional baggage is a first step to gaining control, overcoming some of them.

It may not be good enough to say 'not my job' but it is always enough to say 'not my area of expertise so I signposted them to the right person'. In fact safeguarding insists on it, for the teaching staff's sake - given that safeguarding is there for staff and students alike!

I've worked both in universities where untrained academics were supposed to do pastoral support as part of the personal tutor role, and where academics do academic support only and colleges do pastoral support.

The latter system is far better for academics and students alike, and OP says she has the same system in her institution.

So if a student turns up at my office with BF issues, I can say "I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough time. Have you spoken with your college tutor or considered making an appointment with the counselling service? Is there any support you need with your academic studies?"

Or if a student turns up highly stressed for whatever reason and is thinking of dropping out of university, I can say "I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough time. It sounds like you need support on two fronts - academic and personal. I can help you with academic support and I suggest [short-term plan to meet deadlines / submit mitigation forms, etc.] and that you speak to [module leader / department contact]. It's important you also find personal support - have you spoken with your college tutor or considered making an appointment with the counselling service?"

And so on.

ZeroFucks I feel your pain. Basically, I express sympathy but make it clear that I'm there for practical signposting only. Brisk but helpful with no emotional labour on my part, and I don't care if that makes me seem stone cold - I'm not a substitute parent or big sister and won't pretend to be one. It might be worth dialling back the open and friendly vibe when teaching if the price is students overstepping their boundaries and sucking up your time and headspace.

I agree with most of what other posters have said. I think there's a tendency, from universities and from students themselves, to expect a level of pastoral support that takes more and more time from our other duties and (more importantly) for which we are often not trained for.

Apart from what has already been said @ZeroFucks could you build some of this "signposting" into your department's induction (if you have any), or you department handbook, etc.? Something like: "If you are experiencing difficulties, the following support is available". Students should probably already know anyway but especially those who are new to the university might not be very clear on who does what.

Once the university has heads of department jumping up and down saying “ results are going down here because students need super which they are not getting “ , then things will change.

No, they won't. Many heads of department already jump up and down about dropout rates being high due to poor support services. Nothing happens.

Yeah, they’re not particularly concerned about the students not getting enough support. The only way the problem could be resolved would be to stop recruiting so many students and there’s no way they’ll do that.

Hmm. I wonder if I'm more male-like in how I come off? As I've only had a handful of students cry in my office, and I've been a personal tutor for a decade. I am the first line of contact, which I tell all my students at our first meeting. I do get a lot of questions, both academic and not, but I have places I send them for personal issues.

Or perhaps our Uni is better at support? We're a small Uni and have at least 30 counseling staff (trained to various levels - much fewer actual clinical psychologists, but lots of mental health specialists, therapists, etc.). They will always see a student who shows up in the office on the same day, even if it's just for a booking-in meeting where they take info and then get an a follow-on appointment with a counselor. I'm boggling at 4-week wait. Is that literally to see anyone?

Anyway, OP, my best suggestion is to just keep signposting, kindly. You don't have the training and we're emphasised to here that it is important to get students to people who have appropriate training, for both our and the student's wellbeing. I have definitely heard that this is much more of an issue for female academics, who just seem more 'approachable'.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

I get the point about constantly referring students and getting the University to hire more support staff but I don't think this will work. My HoD is amazing and constantly going on about the need for more support for students but the University will only listen if applicant numbers drop o, sorry to be blunt, there are a couple of suicides which directly blame a lack of support and actually get widely reported in the media. Sad but true.

I absolutely agree that personal problems do impact on student work and I'm always happy to listen to students and support them when they can articulate what the issue is and how its affecting their work. But, so often I find that students can't articulate how their issues are impacting their work specifically. So a student might, for example, tell me that they're having boyfriend problems which is making them stressed. I'll then ask whether this is affecting their dissertation (e.g. finding time to write, having the head space to think through issues, having the physical space to work if they live with their boyfriend) and whether they might need support with an extension or a mitigating circumstances application. Then more often than not they'll say no, that they're just stressed.

So, as an academic, as someone providing academic support, what do I do with that?

It also seems like they're just not able to cope well with any stress. So, take that example again. This person has lots of work to do but is having some relationship issues. I mean, isn't that just life?! Most adults (which these students are) go through life juggling work, relationships with partners, ageing parents, young children, health, bills, household chores, decorating etc. I can't help but feel so many of these students need to toughen up a bit. I know that sounds callous but, as I said above, I think a lot about my friends' kids who didn't go to university and they're so much more resilient and mature.

Sorry for the rants but I really do appreciate talking these issues through on here - it's not something we can easily bring up at work!

I also meant to say that I appreciate the advice to tone down the nice/available/smiley approach but that's just the way that I am naturally. Plus, to be honest, I see this as a fairly easy way to ensure good module evaluation scores which are an important part of my probation terms.

I think the lack of resilience is not helped by the constant insistence that students must never be exposed to anything that might trigger upset. I see so many academics writing long threads about how they ensure that no potentially upsetting subjects are discussed in their sessions. When people complain about lack of attendance, we’re immediately told that we’re ‘ableist af’ etc. I don’t think these academics (and there are so many of them) help in the slightest. Being a survivor of sexual assault doesn’t mean that your life will be destroyed if you ever hear about it ever again, but I can’t blame students for getting the impression that it will. I even saw a post the other day where an academic was complaining about how she often doesn’t have time to eat properly because she is so busy. She had prefaced this with ‘Content warning: food’. Like, seriously? I don’t wish to trivialise things like eating disorders but that is absolutely ridiculous.

I get the impression that the academics who push this victim-narrative have serious issues themselves, including anxiety, eating disorders etc. However, a lot of this is projected onto the students. If they see their lecturer tweeting about her panic attack at the fact that a conference offered ‘healthy snacks’ (which is apparently very triggering to suggest food can be healthy or unhealthy), then how will they themselves develop the robustness needed to cope with life’s problems?

Oh wow, you've articulated so well the issues that I have around this. I see my job as, partly, to help students transition into functioning adults and this cotton wool culture around universities isn't doing that.

IMO, students should feel stressed. They should have to pull all-nighters every now and then. They should cry occasionally because they've lost the thread of an essay or a dissertation. They should go to talks and engage with content where they feel uncomfortable. They should be balancing multiple commitments. All of these, to me, are important skills and life lessons which will ultimately make our students better equipped for life.

When I did my degree, it seems like all of this stuff was pretty normal and just part of student life but now it seems as though the intention is to shield students as much as possible. I genuinely worry how they'll cope when they finish and are let out into the actual world.

I actually also think this wokery-bollocks around trigger warnings is masking some of the really serious issues we have in academia around disability. As an example, last term I couldn't find a single accessible room on campus to book for a dissertation supervision with a student in a wheelchair. My office is absolutely not accessible. She's new to using a wheelchair and said she didn't feel comfortable yet to use a cafe and fair enough. So, you know what, we ended up on a fucking bench outside of her halls of residences. Seriously. It was shambolic yet my complaints went nowhere while at the same time, we see trigger warnings everywhere for seemingly innocuous stuff. If talking about food as health/unhealthy is a trigger warning, how on earth do students go about their weekly Tesco shop?!

Yup, I agree. There was an article on Wonkhe talking about the category error in conflating students' emotional distress with mental health problems, and I think it's useful to emphasise that distinction. The laudable attempt to tackle MH issues ends up in some kind of expectation that students must never ever feel distressed, which is not achievable. They're meant to be stretched by this experience, and not always comfortable.