Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

University staff common room

This board is for university-based professionals. Find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further education forum.

When do you think the strikes will be?

620 replies

JasminaPashmina · 01/11/2019 13:25

Just that - when do you think the strikes will happen?

Before Christmas by chance?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Hefzi · 26/11/2019 11:41

picket FFS Grin

Pota2 · 26/11/2019 22:55

Jasmina seems like our favourite person is really laying into Mary Beard today. I didn’t like the 100 hours tweet from MB but this person is just awful, including a tweet about not being able to wait until ‘auld academics’ ‘die off’. And this was the person who a few weeks ago thought she personally had a free pass from striking because she got some funding for a her postdoc and was calling for ‘kindness’ and not judging those who didn’t strike. Hypocrisy beyond belief.

God, industrial action really brings out the absolute worst in some people.

aridapricot · 26/11/2019 22:59

Is that the same academic who was chastising people earlier today for posting about their research and hence crossing virtual picket lines? Grin

Pota2 · 26/11/2019 23:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aridapricot · 26/11/2019 23:19

I find the whole 'academic kindness' thing sooooooo dodgy... yes, in principle everyone with half a brain will agree that it's a good idea to be kind to others, in academia and elsewhere. But I've found on Twitter that the utmost proponents of academic kindness tend to be incredibly petty, passive-aggressive, ready to incite a pile-on even for mild wrongthink, etc.

Pota2 · 26/11/2019 23:22

Yes, almost without exception, I have found its proponents to be aggressive and unpleasant in the extreme. People who genuinely are kind tend not to go round shouting about how kind they are. Academia is terrible sometimes.

NovemberDays · 27/11/2019 19:58

Really interested in the alternative unions, thank you. I left UCU but feel completely out on a limb. Do academics have to join UCU - Is that the only choice or can we join a different (teaching) union?

I am getting to the point where I think I should re-join UCU but if there are alternatives, I would like to consider them.

bigkidsdidit · 27/11/2019 20:13

I have no idea who you’re all talking about!

bakedbeanzontoast · 27/11/2019 23:16

@aridapricot yes, many of them are total hypocrites

Pota2 · 28/11/2019 09:44

Have seen some interesting teach-outs in the past few days where the topics could not in any sense be linked to talking about industrial action and were entirely based on the individual research of the presenters. One teach-out included a collaborator from another university who had travelled to present at the conference, sorry, teach-out!

Also seen lots of judgement from radical kindness types, berating others for not observing the ‘digital picket’ because apparently it makes people ‘feel bad’ if they see people from non-striking institutions mention their research. Um, okay.

Also seen some people quite militant in calling each other ‘comrade’ and talking about being on the picket but then attending events in the evening and winning awards as a representative of their uni and tweeting about it but apparently this is okay to do this because they did some of the work in their own time. But anyone else who mentions their research is evil.

The pension thing affects mainly pre-92s. I know there are some post-92s striking now for pay and conditions but it’s largely pre-92s. I wonder whether if the strike concerned an issue that affected post-92s whether any of these people would observe any kind of digital picket in support. My guess is a big fat no.

I have actually done 3 days so far but I am struggling to afford to do more so I am working from home today. And I saw on twitter that we have a UCU-fan who thinks that we have a ‘terrible take’ on things. Hi Jess! The thing is, this is how many people feel about the UCU and its actions. You might want to listen to some of what we have to say, seeing as you represent us. And maybe you can’t understand why people can’t afford to be on the picket every single day and have to choose which days we strike, but that is a reality for many of us, especially people in the South East, where rent and mortgage is sky-high. And if you think that offering students a conference-style programme with panels of papers that have nothing to do with industrial action is in fact causing disruption and isn’t just keeping the students happy and allowing academics to work on their research, then so be it. Just warning you that if this action doesn’t have the desired result, there will be reluctance to continue it due to the financial impact. That’s why we get pissed off with ‘teach-outs’ in this style and with excessive focus on whether someone is making someone else feel left out on twitter. But no doubt none of this will sink in and you will just go back to sneering about us on twitter.

JasminaPashmina · 28/11/2019 10:22

@Pota2 I didn't see we'd been mentioned on Twitter - can you send me a link please? I'm so bad at Twitter Grin

I completely agree with you about radical kindness. Much of the article and subsequent discussion are basically about being a normal fucking human being. It's not about being 'kind' so much as just not being a massive fucking cockwombling wanker. Not hard, not radical.

And, yes, I agree too that things would be very different (definitely no virtual picket) if these strikes were happening at post-92s.

I'm striking today as I'm meant to be teaching. I'm using it as an opportunity to catch up on domestic things I've been meaning to do for ages and do some online Christmas shopping.

OP posts:
JasminaPashmina · 28/11/2019 10:29

Ne'er mind... I found the tweet.

I went to teach-outs at the last round of strikes. I know what a teach-out is. At my University, they are being used by academics to share their research and practice conference presentations. Hence why I refused to be involved.

I hate the way MN is ridiculed in academia. Seems decidedly anti-feminist to have a pop at a space where women (mostly) with the shared experience of motherhood (an innately female experience) gather to chat and help each other through life. Many of those having a pop at MN are often those also shouting about feminism and solidarity and supporting women. Confused

OP posts:
Pota2 · 28/11/2019 14:11

Totally hate the derision of MN by academics too. Always accompanied by an insinuation that the women on there shouldn’t be worrying their heads about politics and should get back to the kitchen or something.
Good luck with your strike day. I think I will work tomorrow then strike one day next week. I hope this is okay with the picket-police.

Also saw a teach-out presentation being tweeted about this afternoon on research that I know is being included in that dept’s REF impact case studies. I. Can’t. Even. But yeah, Jess and others, we are the problem for y’know wanting to actually withdraw our labour when we strike.

aridapricot · 28/11/2019 15:43

The digital picket line was not a thing (at least that I remember) in the 2018 strikes, and not something UCU has an official position on. My guess is that some people have lapped it up because it gives them easy virtue-signalling points as well as the opportunity to attack others for transgressions. I even read someone commenting on a tweet about a journalistic (not academic) article tangentially related to their research, that they would read the article after the strike finishes. As if someone researching say contemporary British politics would completely have to disengage from election coverage while they're on strike.

JasminaPashmina · 28/11/2019 17:46

twitter.com/SolGamsu/status/1200101081738600449

A Twitter friend of mine 'liked' this from a teach-out today. I guess the subject focuses on inequality but this is basically sharing research findings, which is part of our fucking job.

THIS IS WORK

One of the comments even shares a link to the presenter's bloody paper Confused

I'd be really interested to see how many of the talks/discussions from teach-outs eventually end up as papers... My guess is quite a few in which case teach-outs are just spaces for practicing arguments.

Sigh.

OP posts:
Pota2 · 28/11/2019 18:03

Oh my Lord, give me strength. That is one hundred percent work and fuck all to do with the strike because the published paper was written well before any strike. And slides/notes for a ‘teach-out’? And we’re the ones who have a ‘bad take’ on the strikes for questioning this? The thing is, we’re losing salary for this. There seems to be a lot of student support and I am not surprised. Saw one teach-out programme in booked venue with back to back talks for the entire strike period. Nobody’s losing out on any education.

Also, forgive me if I am wrong, but if the aim is to placate the students and get them on side then where will the pressure on the employer come from? If the students aren’t complaining and the employer is saving money on payroll this month, why rush to settle? Maybe I am missing something major but I thought pissing off the ‘customers’ was part of strike action so that things became untenable for the employer.

Totally agree that many teach out presentations will end up as published papers, maybe even to go into this REF submission.

aridapricot · 28/11/2019 18:13

Yes @Pota2 I was also surprised at the ease with which some of my most militant colleagues had been offering extra tutorials and materials to students so that no one 'missed out'... so if you kill yourself for 2 weeks before the strike to make up for missed content only to then go without pay for 8 days then what's the whole point of it, I wonder?
Of course I don't advocate being unfair and mean to students just for the sake of it (e.g. deliberately setting exam questions on material which wasn't covered) but surely the point of any strike is that disruption must be felt?

Pota2 · 28/11/2019 18:36

Glad I’m not going mad! It’s nice to have student support of course but students and staff are not the same. If the students are happy standing on the picket line singing songs, it’s causing less disruption to the university. Everyone I know warned their students in advance that they would be striking. I did too to be fair but this reduces disruption so that they can plan ahead.

As for research, the universities know that everyone will work super-hard to catch up because of the individual reputation involved. Nobody will want to compromise their position there. So I wonder then where the real pressure on the universities is.

JasminaPashmina · 28/11/2019 19:21

I suspect that, for students, a lot of the teach-outs will be more interesting and exciting than normal teaching content. So not only is their education not particularly disrupted, it's actually enhanced by activities during the strike.

So, yes, where the fuck is the disruption if students are getting a more enjoyable education that normal and lecturers are delivering it for fucking free

Insane, absolutely insane.

@Pota2 As for research, the universities know that everyone will work super-hard to catch up because of the individual reputation involved. Nobody will want to compromise their position there. So I wonder then where the real pressure on the universities is
That's why I'm only striking on teaching days because the idea of research labour as something I give to the university is a bit ambiguous because we take our research outputs and reputation with us when we go for other jobs (inside and outside academia). I mean, those papers that I don't write during the strike would still have to be written unlike lectures which don't have to be given. That's what I meant above when I asked another PP about other modes of resistance. If we want to disrupt using our research labour, we should collectively refuse to write academic articles or refuse to submit research grants which disrupt universities' REF submissions. Taking a few days away from research labour in the current form of a strike absolutely doesn't disrupt university research, only our own profiles.

OP posts:
aridapricot · 28/11/2019 19:59

I think if funding bodies or external partners demanded their salary/overheads money back from the university for every day lost through strike action at a project they fund? Sounds quite far-fetched to me though, and I don't know if it would even be feasible.

JasminaPashmina · 29/11/2019 08:39

@aridapricot Yeah, that kind of thing. I also have no idea if it'd work! I do actually think that external agencies have a role to play here. Research isn't just a relationship between an academic and their university but also brings in funders and publishers. I think f they started to make some noise about the conditions of academics, then universities are more likely to listen. Paradoxically, though, those agencies will only start to make noise or listen to academics when we withdraw our labour from them such as refusing to publish academic papers. But this needs to happen collectively, not just individuals. That, for me, is where UCU should be focusing its attention.

Research is so individual that it's hard to see how a few days or even weeks away from research actually disrupts the university when REF is on a 5-year cycle. At a stretch, maybe each member of staff produces one less publication over the REF period but that wouldn't really have a huge impact on universities' REF submission (especially if every university had the same thing happening) so, again, I can't see where the disruption to universities comes if academics withdraw research labour.

OP posts:
uzfrdiop · 29/11/2019 08:40

It wouldn't be feasible, not least because there is usually no requirement for research projects to run a certain number of hours every week- as opposed to a total number of hours over the entire funding period. Also the administration involved in councils claiming back funding would be huge and would have to be done primarily by academics.

JasminaPashmina · 29/11/2019 09:05

Another teach-out which is basically just teaching which has cropped up in my timeline today Hmm

OP posts:
Pota2 · 29/11/2019 09:07

I agree that the research is where the real impact could be made re union action. If the UCU members collectively boycotted the REF for instance, I think the universities would listen pretty sharpish. However, nobody would do that. People are (understandably) invested in their own reputation and prestige. While they might agree to lose 8 days pay and then work like crazy afterwards to make up the lost time, I am pretty certain that very few would want to take any action that impacts on their reputation for research. And as you say, the timescale is so long. Nobody would care for instance if your ability to produce publications was damaged by the 2018 strikes and these ones. You’d be expected to do it regardless.

I also think refusing to apply for funding would be effective but again I doubt anyone will do it. Getting funding provides teaching and admin buy-out precisely because there are precarious workers. So, if we improve conditions and end precarity, the people who bring in funding can no longer expect to be bought out and, instead, research projects will have to be worked around other duties, which will impact on the speed at which they are completed. I know several people on the picket line who directly rely on precarious workers for their projects and they would be fucked if precarity was actually ended because they would need to do the teaching and admin that they have now farmed out to fixed term early career teaching-fellows who themselves can’t get their own research done due to the burden. They’re making the right noises about wanting ‘a better university for all of us’ but, in reality, many of them are pretty happy with how it is at the moment, I think. Once the people who enable them to do their research unencumbered get rights, their own working conditions will need to change.

Maybe I’m bitter because I don’t have teaching buy-out. I am research-active but haven’t managed to pull in huge grants so far. But it means I also know I am pulling my weight rather than relying on those less fortunate than me to do the work and in turn preventing them from having success because they’re too busy doing the work that I should have been doing. I know I’m not, unlike a colleague, recruiting 2 PhDs for my funded project because they’re cheaper than post-docs but that the chances of those PhDs actually having a permanent academic career is minimal, given the state of the job-market.

Someone from my dept is writing heartfelt 20-part threads about how she wants all academics to have her smooth route to professorship and that this should be a vision for us all. Mate, they can’t all become profs. It’s like capitalism- not everyone can be rich or the system wouldn’t work. She’s not taught for about 5 years, meaning her load is carried by teaching fellows. Maybe if she wasn’t bought out, those TFs could have research allocation too and their careers wouldn’t stall. Plus she says she only joined the UCU a couple of months ago so I wonder where her solidarity was before that and what sparked this magical awakening that maybe things weren’t all good in the academe.

Pota2 · 29/11/2019 09:11

Ah yes, non-binary and intersex visibility in the Roman world. Completely to do with the UCU strike action.

Swipe left for the next trending thread