Oh, joy, I have Mansplainer (TM) for a colleague. Share my pain?

[SarahAndQuack]

I just started a postdoc. I finished my PhD in 2014, so have been around the block a little bit and have a book coming out next year; the postdoc will, I hope, let me develop a new project that'll become the second book. Amongst my new colleagues are a couple of other postdocs at around the same career stage, and a couple who're fresh out of PhD.

And one of these is the mansplainer from hell. Everything that comes out of his mouth is 'advice'. Except, it's really bad advice because he doesn't seem to have got his mind around the fact that the PhD is over (the rest of us have moved institutions; he's stayed where he did his PhD). The first time I met him he launched into a monologue about how awful the faculty are, how much they dislike each other, how they have petty rivalries ... and when I scraped my jaw off the floor (because I thought this was incredibly unprofessional) and said weakly I'd been looking forward to getting to know the community, he replied 'look at the PhD students ... that is your community'.

Since then he seems to have made it his mission to tell me how to get on in the department, complete with helpful hints, like the fact I should, apparently, time seminar papers to end within the time limit, and should avoid reading in a monotone.

I (and the other female postdoc, who gets the same treatment) have tried quite bluntly saying we know this stuff already. He is impervious.

What is really starting to get to me is that he does this in front of everyone - students and staff - and so I am constantly having to correct people who assume I'm a new PhD student, and it's making it awkward to network because I'm perpetually having to deflect conversations where people want to give me advice about revising my thesis or getting my first publication out. As you can imagine, I am getting very quick at jumping in to introduce myself first.

I know this will all shake out before long, but right now it is depressing me. Any thoughts? Care to share about your pet faculty mansplainer?

I've experienced this and it is not fun! I even had a colleague introduce me when I was actually in a meeting, everyone went around the table introducing themselves, his turn and he introduced me too. I didn't know what to say!

I have no advice apart from to network like crazy so people know who you are, and also to keep all work away from him. In my experience these sorts like to present your hard efforts as their own too.

WTF? How weird must that have been! I bet everyone else round the table was wondering what on earth he was thinking.

But YY, that makes good sense about networking. Fortunately, he doesn't work in a very closely-related area, so I doubt he would be in a position to nick anything, but I can absolutely see him being that type.

It'll be general ideas he steals, like you say "why don't we do X event for the department" and suddenly you'll find people saying he suggested it

As you can imagine, I am getting very quick at jumping in to introduce myself first.

Yup, I'm afraid you'll have to do a lot of that. Also "thanks for that, Brian, but that's not actually what I was saying...", "I covered that in my paper which appeared in prestigious journal 2018", "Yes, I did a lot of work on that when preparing the manuscript of my book - oh yes, it's coming out next year..."

Basically, you're going to have to be annoyingly blow-your-own-trumpet to counteract the guy.

And avoid, avoid, avoid where possible -specially if he's badmouthing established faculty. That will have been noticed, people will be sharpening the knives, and you don't want to be seen as guilty by association, however tenuous.

I am so glad I'm out of academia now.

In the mean time, as a bit of light relief, I bring you...

I have a mansplaining colleague. Unfortunately he is senior to me so I smile and nod most of the time just to get on with the work but sometimes he needs telling. The annoying thing is, is when I point out that he is wrong he turns it around and manages to blame me or someone else. Errors are never his fault! It's so infuriating.

I'll be wary for that, @notmytea. Fortunately, it's a two-year postdoc so I am planning to concentrate on my research and try to stay away from departmental politics (I say 'try'!).

@BarbaraStrozzi - thanks for cheering me up! And yes, I am trying to push myself to be more Mediocre White Man as I self-promote. Ugh.

@witherwings - I'm sorry, that's really shit.

Are you a postdoc on a project?

Do you have a PI?

Depending on what they're like, I'd honestly go and talk to them about it. You don't need to put in a formal complaint or anything like that but let them know this man is doing it and that it's undermining you and getting your down. Hopefully a word from the PI will sort him out.

Otherwise, I think you need to be very rude actually to try and make him get the message.

Him giving advice one-to-one: 'Don't give me advice. If I want advice, I will ask someone senior to us'

Him giving advice in front of others: 'I'm not a new PhD student, I'm a postdoc, I don't need that advice'

Him telling you about Department politics: 'I don't want to hear petty gossip'

Him giving ridiculously obvious advice: 'I obviously don't need to be told to time my talk properly/not speak in monotone, what a ridiculous thing for you to say'

I would most definitely speak with your PI.

I have been around academia for many many years and dealt with many many many many of these men. I'm happy to share experiences if you want me to. I've lost my patience for it now.

Minimise the impact he can have, use minimal energy/words when contradicting him.
Ignore him and if he persists say ' were you talking to me, that's not relevant'.
When he tells you something say "well, obviously". "I'm not a student" "I'm not doing a PhD"

You don't need to be polite or soften it- he isn't.

You don't need to be polite or soften it- he isn't

Can't echo this enough

@JasminaPashmina - no, I'm a postdoc on my own project (I'm in Arts, where this is the standard situation - I know it's different in Sciences). I do have a mentor, but she is very new to the department, and she is keen to change the culture already.

I have literally said 'I know this: I don't need this advice'. When he gossiped about the department I did tell him I felt uncomfortable hearing these sorts of discussions about colleagues I had not yet met, but he simply replied they were not my colleagues as they were 'the department'.

I have come across mansplainers before, and always thought I was quite comfortable being blunt and to the point, but he simply doesn't stop. I really would appreciate your experiences/solutions if you're happy sharing! I just feel so blindsided by this.

I can't stress enough - I really am being this blunt. For example, I went to the seminar the other night. He interrupted into a conversation I was having to 'introduce' me to a PhD student, at which point one of the faculty started asking me how I was getting on writing up my PhD. I replied I was five years post-PhD and had just finished writing up my first book, but was starting a new project I was excited about. As I said this mansplainer talked over me, so I had to repeat it, and as I finished mansplainer jumped in to clarify 'I wondered, [name], if I could ask for your opinion on when to talk to a publisher?' And so the faculty member ended up talking to both of us about approaching publishers for a first book. As soon as I could I said I had a publisher and said to mansplainer that since I had been through the process I would be happy to share advice. He replied by telling me there was a lot more to securing a publishing deal than I might think, and saying he'd help me with it once he'd done it. And the faculty member told me not to worry and to concentrate on finishing my PhD.

I just feel as if my mouth is moving but nothing is coming out!

Walk away. As in when he starts, walk away.
If he calls you out
"I'm too busy gathering information for my next book"
*tell someone who doesnt know"
"Bless you, were you still talking? I zoned out"

Or to a passing sympathetic colleague "bless he's telling his grandma how to suck eggs again"

The people who are listening to him are predisposed to pay more attention to his words than yours. You need to be 'loud' somehow- over the top 'pay attention I'm speaking'. You shouldn't have to, but you do. Also short and sharp. Channel your inner 'dragon', don't waste words.

My male boss decided he needed to tell me how to load paper into the printer.

Apparently you need to put it in straight... And also apparently you shouldn't bed the corners....

Who knew???? Not me, obviously....

He also decided he needed to show me how to add a printer... The one on the print server I set up, installed all printers on, set up the printing software on, set up the AD connection on, wrote the policies for, set the group policies for, wrote all the procedure manuals for ....

No no, he needed to show me how to manually add the printer on the client machine...

Was going to say he might be well meaning but very unaware but after your latest comment it seems like he is purposely trying to belittle you (or giant himself) so I would be having words with someone more senior.

Add in a few-
"gotta stop you there (do the hand sign)- obviously I know that cos I'm not a phd student"
then a "gosh this is embarrassing- you keep forgetting I'm not a phd student"
And a "wait- remember I said, 'not a phd student'"

TBH, I don't think he should be saying this stuff to other PhD students either, though, @picklemepopcorn! It's rude and unnecessary to say it to me, but if he were saying it to a PhD student it'd still be rude (and might easily make them feel really discouraged).

The printer paper example really takes the cake. That's awful!

OP, you say you're being blunt but I don't think you are. You need to be fucking rude as fuck.

Take you recent seminar example... You also need to be talking to this guy in a firm, loud voice. But, as others have said, at this point, I would just walk away from him every single time he starts to speak to you.

For example, I went to the seminar the other night. He interrupted into a conversation I was having to 'introduce' me to a PhD student, at which point one of the faculty started asking me how I was getting on writing up my PhD

Don't interrupt me, turn your back to him

I replied I was five years post-PhD and had just finished writing up my first book, but was starting a new project I was excited about. As I said this mansplainer talked over me, so I had to repeat it

'Don't speak over me when I'm talking' in a very raised voice. Then either carry on or walk away

and as I finished mansplainer jumped in to clarify 'I wondered, [name], if I could ask for your opinion on when to talk to a publisher?' And so the faculty member ended up talking to both of us about approaching publishers for a first book

^'It was nice to meet you. Hopefully speak soon' and walk away.

As soon as I could I said I had a publisher and said to mansplainer that since I had been through the process I would be happy to share advice. He replied by telling me there was a lot more to securing a publishing deal than I might think, and saying he'd help me with it once he'd done it

'What on earth are you talking about?' Confused look, walk away

And the faculty member told me not to worry and to concentrate on finishing my PhD

This faculty member is a twat. You should've said 'as I've just said, I'm a postdoc'

And I would definitely chat with your mentor about this. Tell her its making you stressed and unwell and that's affecting your productivity.

Some examples of mansplaining from my long career:

One of my huge research grants was used as an example of best practice at a workshop. In the break, a random guy told me "That's the way to get grants. What he has done is...." I had great pleasure in telling him it was my grant and making him squirm by asking why he assumed the PI was a man (it'd only been shared anonymously).

I once walked two miles with a man from my department who asked me what my latest research was about. I got one sentence out before he proceeded to tell me for half hour why the topic was interesting and what research needed to be done. He wasn't an expert in the field. I was HoD, I called him in my office the next day to address his behaviour.

At a conference, I was loading up presentation before my talk and was online. Assuming I had no idea how to use PPT and was googling it, a man from the audience jumped up and snatched the mouse from my hand to teach me. I snatched it back, told him not to be so patronising and proceeded to load my presentation which I did through video and social media and music and all sorts of cool things and then won the prize for best presentation at the conference

Realistically, I am not going to start turning my back on a senior colleague I do not know, when I am very new to a postdoc. That is going to make me look insane.

If I could have turned my back just on him, or walked away without being rude to the senior colleague, I would do that. But I don't think it's realistic to think I am going to start offending the entire department just to prove a point to this guy.

I did raise my voice and repeat my point. And yes, I am inclined to agree faculty member may be a bit of a twat, but I genuinely think he simply did not register what I was saying.

It's not making me unwell, btw. It is just making me fed up and incredulous and the mansplaineryness. But I think I will raise it with mentor.

You sound great, btw, and you clearly take no shit, though I am infuriated that you even have to deal with this.

Mansplainer isn't going to learn any time soon.

So maybe focus on other people, and their reactions?

Next time you see them, be slightly embarrassed for them? As though they've made a gaff patronising you – but it's not their fault, it's Barry's.

"Oh dear, I'm sorry, Barry has set you up a bit there. I'm actually well postdoc, with one book published and another in the pipeline. Whoops!"

Not those exact words, obviously, but that could be the scenario in your head.

Actually, might be worth trying on Barry too – bluntly and without the face-saving stuff you do for the others.

So Barry gets: "Oh dear, how embarrassing for you. Did you think I was a student? Never mind dear, we all make mistakes."

Oh, that's really good! I like that and can see it working without risking me looking like the one who has no manners for senior colleagues.

I find "Shut the fuck up" works quite well

Alternatively (in rather more polite company): "I'd like you to stop patronising me now, if you don't mind".

@SarahAndQuack I didn't mean to offend, I'm sure you are being stern and forthright with this mansplainer. What I think I was getting at is that you need to start being downright rude!

In terms of the senior colleague you mentioned - I think it'd have been fine to walk away and then email later to say something like "It was very nice to meet you and I want to apologise for walking away just as we started talking. I am having a few issues with Barry and I am having to walk away from some situations. I hope we're able to get a coffee sometime, I'd really like to chat about your work on..."

Well, I'd have been fine with this but I agree it is a risk.

In terms of this senior colleague not 'registering' what you were saying, I'm making a huge assumption here but my guess would be that he'd have registered it if you'd been a man.

It fucking shit to have to deal with this stuff. You need the skin of an elephant and it doesn't get better as you get more senior I'm afraid - you just give less fucks about who you offend

I also meant to say, I'm advocating walking away too because, as PP have said, this guy just isn't listening to your attempts to show him that his behaviour is unreasonable and I suspect he might be enjoying getting a rise out of you.

That's why I would just walk away and not engage.

Do you share an office with this guy? How old is he?

Oh, no, of course you didn't offend me! I was reading mine back and hoping you wouldn't read it as ungrateful, actually.

I like your solution of emailing senior colleagues afterwards - that'll work.

I technically share an office with him, but it doesn't actually matter at all as he's almost never there and I'm often out too. I don't know his age - guessing around the same as me, 30s?

I don't actually get the vibe he even recognises he's getting a rise out of me. He's just like this. He's the same with the other female postdoc I've met, though she's around much less so there's less of it.