Difficult Students

[Benes]

Not really after advice more of a place to vent where people will understand!

I run an MA and currently have a student causing real issues.They basically stem from the student having unrealistic expectations as to what support and help he should be receiving....the usual ' i'm paying thousands to be here therefore I own your soul' type of thing.

This morning he's kicked off monumentally and has sent a loooong email outlining my failings to my HoD. He also copied me in just so i know what he thinks about me. My HoD will support me unequivocally but it's such bad timing as there is a promotion opportunity coming up which I really want and could do without a student complaint hanging over my head.

Bloody students!!!

H works at a university and students expect far too much by way of support, not all but many want to be spoon fed information just like at school, the more prestigious the school they attended the worse this can be. Overseas students are worse, money has been offered many times for "special help" (the exam papers in advance) and parents call to complain about grades - but many of the overseas students have only learned by rote and cannot adapt to our different style of learning even if their English is excellent. The higher the fees the more they expect - but here the university has clamped down on term time holidays for staff, before you could as long as you weren't lecturing

It's definitely getting worse... students see them selves as customers and we're there to provide good customer service. Most of the time students have little or no knowledge of how universities work and what studying involves.

This student is complaining about the lack of support despite having 5 face to face tutorials, a telephone conversation, personal academic skills sessions and has had every email query answered. This is in addition to weekly lectures and seminars. It's beyond a joke.

It's one of the reasons I want out; I didn't get a PhD to effectively nappy change. It's beyond ridiculous now IMO/E

Yep. Academic Airhostess

They can be a sodding nightmare - I've had a hate campaign waged against me by a student this term, for daring to point out that her paraphrases are actually direct quotes with one or two words changed. I'm not alone either - there are numerous "problem" students with a variety of deeply inappropriate behaviour towards staff, unfortunately.

It's a pita, not because we've done something wrong but because of having to spend time and effort putting together the counter-case and doing all the paperwork. Ten years ago I didn't save all this stuff to prove that I was doing my job appropriately - today, you'd be barmy not to, frankly.

And as PP said, you quickly stop bending over backwards once you realise it's always the students you've gone over and above for who want to shaft you when they don't get the (distinction) they want.

It's probably the obvious result, though, of treating them like the consumers, and putting so much weight into trying to bribe them to give positive responses on the NSS

Pretty fucking depressing, though, whatever the reason.

(Cheery aside: one of my supervisees has complained to the HoD because I told her that it wasn't my place, as supervisor, to identify and list out a complete bibliography for her Master's dissertation, and that this was an integral part of the task itself. I made the rookie error months ago of providing her with an introductory reading list, that she'd asked for as a foreign student from a different discipline... As I am her third - or possibly fourth - supervisor in as many months, because of her behaviour towards them, the HoD was even fiercer with her than I was

I know it's a money-spinner, but I really think we should go back to reading personal statements, and requiring a damn good justification for admittance in the absence of a degree in the subject or a cognate discipline...)

I'm a secondary teacher (but have a PhD so know a bit about this world too) and unfortunately this attitude very much starts in school. I've had both pupils and parents tell me they pay my wages (or their parents do) and therefore I should be doing everything and anything for them. The most memorable was when a parent questioned why I wasn't there to teach his son when I dared to have two weeks off after a miscarriage. 🤦‍♀️

Hope it gets sorted out OP.

I've had students like this, I'd take it very seriously in the sense of protecting your wellbeing. I don't think you should be required to meet him at all, this student should be passed off to someone else as a matter of staff safeguarding. Are you a member of a union? If so I'd be tempted to notify them even if your HoD is very supportive.

Sounds difficult.

"It's a taught masters so the level of support they get is in line with what we offer undergraduates. "

But, on a slightly different tangent I've always struggled with this.
Let's charge you for an MA, send you to a couple of BA lectures and expect you to step up to the mark.

Where's the actual support? The development skills come from where exactly?

Or send students to a couple of GCSE lessons and expect an A'level paper.

I never really got my head round that.

Hi Oblomov - what support is there? Students are meant to gradually increase their ability to learn independently as they progress from levels 4 to 6 and a masters is an opportunity to further develop their research and critical thinking skills.
Typically there is study skills support available either from the library or from a learning support unit which helps students develop independent learning and research skills.
The amount of support and nature of the support should also be faded as they progress and the nature of support should change. However it is often easier for staff to take the easy route and help a student a bit too much than take the time to coach them to do it themselves, so students take advantage of this and opt out of learning to manage independently.

Any Masters programme that was designed as a couple of UG lectures is not fit for purpose. Many institutions use one or two specialist third year modules shared with Masters students along side a palate of bespoke Masters modules. The Masters students on UG lectures will have different tutorials/seminars and different assessments which suit their level. Seminars are used as times to develop thinking skills.

The project or dissertation, which is the centre piece of a Masters programme, is where the student can develop their critical thinking through their own research.

Most Masters programmes are required to have demonstrable study skills as a distinct provision which includes research and writing help.

Students get individual tutor sessions and an open door when they have problems.

There is more online support that any student at any time has ever experienced. Books, journals, animations, quizzes, videos, instructions, feedback, lecture recordings, lecture notes, additional reading. Access to instructors at week ends via email and messenger..

Never before has there been so much help and never before has the student body been more helpless and disgruntled. The two are connected in my view.

Is there an update please?

Is there an update please?

Its all on Blackboard, msmith501

Apologies for the lack of updates. It's been a busy few weeks.

So, we arranged a meeting with the student which he cancelled last minute. He blamed me and said my behaviour was damaging his mental health. I suspect it was more to do with his attitude towards women as the senior manager attending with me was female. He was also pushing for a meeting on a date he knew I was on leave. When I refused he complained about my lack of flexibility!!

We rearranged and my (male) line manager attended as he was back off annual leave.

The meeting was awful. The student basically spent an hour listing the many, many ways in which I'd failed to do my job. All lies or completely unrealistic expectations. He claimed the issues all stemmed from my refusal to reply to emails while off sick with tonsillitis. My line manager just wanted it over quickly so was a little bit too sympathetic to him at times. The student basically used the fact I'm personable and supportive against me. He said he felt he could email me constantly because I was so nice 🙄

However, I felt I got my issues across and agreed some actions. It's all on record and if he reverts back to his previous behaviour we've got something to refer to. He also withdrew his complaint as he never meant it to be treated as one he just wanted to make a point! I have a feeling we'll be back where we started by Christmas.

There were paragraphs I promise!!

oblomov I think you might have misunderstood what I meant by the level of support bring in line with UG support.

They aren't attending any UG lectures. They are taught at masters level but they have the same access to support from personal tutors, module tutors, and academic skills tutors as UG students but we do expect a greater level of Independent and autonomous study.

I feel for you, I think you should be better supported by your seniors - this student clearly needs boundaries enforced and for your team to say, actually, this behaviour isn't appropriate. The student should be passed onto someone else to deal at this point, you shouldn't be being pulled into constant meetings with them, bending over backwards. How on earth is he going to behave once he's at work!?

You're right, hunger, but at my institution we're so obsessed with retention that any whiff of a student complaint will be jumped on to 'resolve' it (to the student's satisfaction, usually...). We had a final-year plagiarism case in which the student was given lots of sympathy by the panel for not having felt like they could ask anyone for help with their references, after being caught twice previously. The student was not kicked out, and only narrowly prevented from re-submitting the assignment for full marks!

Good luck OP, you're doing all the right things. Fingers crossed he'll improve his behaviour (but obviously don't hold your breath!).