Anyone else thinking of packing it in

[Amn79]

SL at RG university in a technical area. Have a couple of grants, and suspect others would say being quite successful, but honestly don’t think I can be bothered any more. I spend all of my time basically doing stuff I don’t want to do. Feeling quite negative ATM.

Is it silly to make the jump to industry at this stage? It’s not a decision to take lightly, I’ve worked hard over 15 years to get here, and I think of the ECRs who would ‘kill’ for a permanent position, grants, etc. Nevertheless, I just don’t think this is what I want to do anymore. Academia/the job has changed too much.

Spoken to a couple of Profs and they were quite encouraging of going. I think everyone is pretty jaded really.

Do people have any thoughts on this? Does anyone have experience of making this transition at SL level rather than (say) after post doc? What ‘level’ did you go to in industry?

You sound like me. I'm desperate to get out. Watching with interest - I did try to escape once but there was a lot of you are over qualified etc etc. I totally echo your sentiments though. If I had my time again I wouldn't have taken the academic route.

Thanks sushisuperstar. No decisions yet from me, but I will update if that changes. Everyone I speak to online and off seems to share the same view. I wonder whether there’s a ‘hidden core’ out there who are satisfied but not speaking up for some reason.

Hello OP

Taking a break from Saturday night marking to read MN!

I'd love to leave. I'm just about keeping my head above water in my lecturer position at an RG. I just haven't had much luck with grants (not enough money to go around and UKRI are too risk-averse nowadays) and I really struggle to write good papers. I am brilliant at teaching but no-one seems to give a fuck.

My plan is to stay for another 10 years. By that time, I'll have my house paid off in full and a good wedge of cash in the bank. I'm fucking counting the days.

I would love to go earlier but there isn't much call for my research area so I'm not sure how easily I'd get a job elsewhere.

In terms of your "hidden core", yes, I think there's a group of people who know how to play the game so find academic life quite easy (well, if not easy at least not a massive struggle). I also think there's a core of people who just physically couldn't function outside of academia. I also think there's a core of people who get a lot of their identity from being academics, especially at places like Oxford, Cambridge, Durham. So, yes, I think there's a "core" but I think it's quite diverse and actually quite big!!

I'd actually potentially put myself on the periphery of that "core" - I think there are perks to academia which I'd be very reluctant to leave behind.

A colleague of mine was telling me about her friend who left a permanent lectureship earlier this year: blog about it

For the first time ever. Me. I’m so tired so the grant treadmill - I can’t imagine doing this in thirty years’ time. I am looking about for opportunities

All. the. time.

Unfortunately I'm cursed by a mixture of stubbornness, optimism bias, and intellectual arrogance. So fundamentally I believe that at some point they will give me all the accepts and funding!!!

If I knew my career would always be like this, I would definitely go. The radical uncertainty is very hard. It could all work out and turn out well; or it could all be one giant miserable mistake. I'm not really in it for an increment a year and to get to be called Professor shortly before retirement.

I need to get out. It's brought be nothing but grief- if I had my time again I wouldn't have touched this route with a barge pole.

Sounds like a fairly similar set of views on here, but relatively little experience of actually taking the plunge. Does anyone know of success stores of moving on? The ‘level’ question is still very much on my mind.

I'd pack it in if I had savings to tide me over for a few months whilst I job hunt; unfortunately trying to apply for another job and all that that involves is impossible given the current workload which takes over everything. I am sure not all jobs involve the same amount of time academic jobs do for applications but anything I'd go for, eg research positions in charities, would require in-depth research on the topic in question which needs time and focus to execute effectively. The days of round robins are in the past....as I say I did try to escape, what often happened was I'd end up being shortlisted and then got an interview followed by the usual you are over qualified or they was someone with more relevant experience or such like.

I did leave a job in the past however I had to return to academia as no one else would take me and I'd run out of money. Indeed, I was lucky to get the job I got so quickly. But that's how fed up of it I was.

IME, much of the enjoyment in this profession is down to who the manager is at the time, and the climate the institution is under.

I don’t know anyone who left after post doc level, sorry. Oh, yes, one who founded a spin off that did well and left to run it. No one else.

DCMS is funding free courses for women to get into cybersecurity. Look into tech - user research if you are a qual person. If you're near a civil service department, see if you can arrange a secondment, even a part-time secondment if you happen to have a research day a week. I've always kept an eye on the 'cognate' job market and it's doable.

I guess the thing about people with experience of the transition is they won't be hanging around this board :) I do recall a poster back when the Academics Chat thread was in Chat who kept trying to convince everyone to go to industry because it was so much better. But that will all have gone, by now.

Like others, I'm not sure I'd have gone this way if I knew what it'd be like. Although now I'm quite good at teaching and feel reasonably confident that I can maintain a secure position on that even if grants don't come through. Going elsewhere into uncertainty while I'm the only earner in the family seems just too risky. Also, I might be one of those who can't make it outside: I really appreciate the flexibility academia gives me to work around my disability. While I've found the whole formal disability stuff a complete mystery and actually slightly hostile, the informal arrangements and simple freedom of making my own schedule is something I worry about not finding elsewhere.

I can perhaps comment from another perspective as academia is my second career. I am struggling at the moment - good at some things including impact and teaching and public engagement but really finding it difficult currently to get published. I am trying to adopt a position of optimism and persistence on this - I desperately want to succeed and really earn the title of 'academic' in my head. My failure to do so sometimes makes me want to get out and I find the rejections and the tone of them very hard.

But before this, I worked in 'industry' for ten years. For me nothing can replace the relative autonomy and variety of academic life. I know the direction of travel doesn't look that great but at the moment this job affords me a level of flexibility I just don't think is available elsewhere. When working in a corporate environment I hated and resented the feeling that I was 'owned.' I don't have that in academia. I work hard - harder than I did before in many ways. But I feel that it is more on my own terms. I found corporate life as political as academia with as many ridiculous demands but without the relative perks.

I would add that I am not at a RG university. I wonder if in some ways there is a 'sweet spot' in that there is an emphasis on research here and many excellent researchers which is good and there is pressure to publish in top journals and win funding - but it is not overwhelming. I guess that's a compromise between being very successful and (struggling) to keep up at a very prestigious institution - and having a slightly better quality of life?

I guess what I am trying to say is that it's just possible that the grass might not always be greener. But of course, I am sure this is different for everybody and depends a lot on the institution and the subject area.

I did leave but came back. I am really wondering if it was the right decision. I am on leave atm (school hols) but ended up having to go in today to sort a marking issue (not of my doing). I honestly feel that the demands on my time and hoops to jump through have never been greater. Also an SL and just not managing work and home anymore. Feeling so fed up with academia and bloody REF etc etc.

But what else to do and the flexiblity works so well with kids etc. I can see myself staying as the easiest option.