Any job or hold out?

[whatthefoxsaid]

Hello
I finished my PhD last year and have submitted (minor) corrections. I need a permanent job as dh and I want to move house and need a mortgage (renting at the moment).
I've been looking for a permanent lectureship and applied for 3. Got through to interviews for one but pipped to the post, usual 'other candidate had more experience'. I'm wondering if it's worth holding out for another vacancy, applying for research (if and when they come along) or setting my sights a bit lower and just applying for any permanent ft job.
This was prompted by seeing an ad for a ft receptionist position. It feels like a waste of 10yrs work but I know the market is so competitive. I worry that the longer I'm out of the academic loop, the harder it will be to break back in. Any words of wisdom?

Not sure if I'm equipped to reply, as I'm at the stage as you, but my instinct would be to go for any job at this point. Advantages of something low-level: it shouldn't get in the way of the search for an academic job, it'll be easy enough to jack it in if/when you do get the academic job, and from my perspective, having the routine of a job is better for your mental health than long periods focused entirely on job-hunting.

An established academic might tell you to hold out for the right job, but their experience won't necessarily apply to you, if they were job-hunting in quite a different market (although I accept that the past wasn't necessarily a golden age of easy academic pickings).

How restricted are you to area?

If you need to be in a certain area, then you are going to be less able to hold out for an academic job than if you have mobility and could move for a research job/lecturer's post.

Are there not post-docs in your field? That might be a good interim option.

Lectureships are quite hard to get off a PhD alone, unless you have published prolifically during it- people who are taken on now would have to be REF-submittable (i.e. have good enough papers, ideally a grant). It does depend on the uni what they can demand though, lecturers' posts in my uni are aimed really at your several years in post-doc who is carrying good REF-able stuff, but I know elsewhere people with less experience do ok.

Thanks for the replies!
bibliomaniac that was what I was thinking. It would get the ball rolling in terms of house move and into the habit of work. Downside is I'd have less time to write applications and publications I suppose.
springisallaround not particularly mobile in the short term but willing to move in the future and not especially restricted as to where- it'd be nice if the stars aligned and it tied into a job, but it's a bit chicken and the egg (can't move til I get a job, job could dictate the move).
Just had a look at post docs and nothing really- wonder if they're not so common in social sciences?
Haven't published prolifically but I do have 3 out there and currently writing two more. It's hard!

I don't know what type of research you do in the social sciences, but usually there are quite a lot of post-doc posts, especially in qualitative research, but quant too. Perhaps it's just between funding cycles, I'm sure there will be more leading up to next Sept, although grants can theoretically come at any time. I have lots of students who have had post-docs, that's pretty much the standard move and not lectureships in my discipline anyway, lectureships tend to be for people who've had post-docs, perhaps more pubs, a grant, possibly a book. In other words, a few years out from the PhD.

Or what about applying for fellowships? Three pubs is't bad, I know people with fewer after a PhD!

Yes I'm qual research, and in the past have seen a few research fellow/associate positions but discounted due to fixed term contract. Getting to the point now where I'll consider anything and they seem to have dried up!
Good to hear more may become available leading up to Sept. I suppose I'll just have to keep looking and in the meantime, if something comes up, give it some more serious thought. It feels a bit disheartening but I didn't think it would be easy!
Do you think a formal teaching qualification will help? Trying to think of things I can do to boost my chances.

It's so hard- if you move house and get a mortgage you are effectively restricting your lectureship search. On the other hand, fixed term contracts are really popular and so it might seem better to just jump into anything rather than nothing.

I don't know whether teaching quals are needed up front, ours are usually done in the first year of lectureship or possibly during a post=doc.

What is sure is that you need to be REF submittable, though, as if you are taken on as a f/t member of staff, you will need to submit at least one paper. I'd work on papers/books more. What about fellowships which might give you more flexibility? (ESRC type thing?)

If you're getting to interview that's a good sign. I'd keep going, but make sure you are giving good answers at interview, make sure you're talking about REF, funding, TEF, curriculum development etc. Show them that you're a safe pair of hands for research AND teaching.

Are you considering teaching-only roles? They often have more time to do research than an actual research role, and allow you to get your foot in the door.

Thanks, spring you've echoed what I was thinking about keeping up with writing papers. I was wondering if it was worth scaling that back and going for a teaching qual but to be fair, in the adverts I've applied for so far, it usually says you can complete whilst teaching. I'll keep looking for fellowships. I'm possibly being a bit impatient but we're stuck in our current tiny house until I find work so I'm feeling the pressure.
try2hard I'd be happy with either. I really enjoyed my research and there's plenty of scope for further research in my area, but I just need a job! The interview I did get to were very kind and said it was literally a case of slightly more experience- no feedback to give on my answers. Which is nice but doesn't give me much to improve on!
Was thinking about contacting my uni to see if there's any part time hourly paid lecturing going, to help with the experience issue, but need to work out who would be best to ask about that. I also have a toddler so need to factor in childcare!

discounted due to fixed term contract

That will have hamstrung you. Are you willing to consider FTC now?

MedSchoolRat yes I think I would be willing to apply if the right one came along. Since starting my PhD I've kept an eye on jobs and can really only think of one ftc research job that would have been perfect so I don't feel I've missed out too much.
My area of interest and methodology are both a bit niche helpful but I've tried to keep up with more mainstream methods through teaching (voluntarily) the undergrad qual methods. So hopefully something will come up that I can do!

Agree, it’s impossible to go from PhD to lectureship nowadays. They want several years experience in a post doc with prolific publishing. And they will get it, and more. Due to the shortage of academic jobs and the proliferation of PhDs, every post is attracting 10x the applications that it would have attracted 20-30 years ago. They can really take their pick and they’ll never pick a new graduate.

The problem is you’re competing with other PhD students, other post docs, and other lecturers who want to switch to a different uni. And you’re at the bottom of that pile experience wise and research wise. Plus your competition isn’t just people in the local area - it’s people from around the entire world.

Imo you will have to set your sights lower and take any job that allows you to publish. Because as soon as you stop publishing, your chances of ever getting a job begin to disappear. The longer it is since your last publication the less likely you are to ever get a job. You may need 2-3 post docs under your belt before you can get a permanent job. Few people have the flexibility to move around to different universities like that, you’ll have to be really flexible.

I agree that you would, in my field, need postdocs first.

But, if you do get a receptionist job (or similar) to keep the money coming in, make sure you keep an affiliation. Your PhD-granting university may have a scheme for this, where you can be an 'associate' or 'visiting postdoc' and you're not paid but you keep library access and email. This is really vital if you want to keep in the loop, and it's important for your CV too.

I agree with everyone that the usual pathway is PhD finish, post-doc (or two) in which you gain further pubs/book/grant, then lectureship. I have seen people deviate from this and get a lectureship quicker in a couple of circumstances a) at a less prestigious institution where there's not so much emphasis on research and b) where there's a known 'gap' in the marketplace, so quant teaching in certain fields.

If you are a qual researcher in a field which is over-supplied this isn't likely to end up in a permanent lectureship quickly- although the fact you got an interview is really good news and shows your CV holds up well. The last two posters are spot on though about keeping your CV current and continuing to publish, nothing can really be more important than that, CV-wise. You can sometimes get a mortgage off a fixed contract position, the problem is then you've limited your geographic area for lectureships and that really will limit your chances of getting one.

Lots of food for thought here, thank you all for your input. I'll certainly keep writing and trying(!) to publish, to keep my cv current.
I'm not sure when my access to university resources/emails will come to an end. My amendments need to be approved by the internal examiner, then I should graduate in the summer. I'll have a chat with my supervisor about staying as an affiliate. They often get a bit desperate for markers/invigilators in the summer so will put myself forward for that too!
Interesting re mortgage eligibility on ftc- I just assumed it would be a no go. Ideally I'd like to stay living in my current area as its so convenient for travel to so many potential workplaces but house prices are high and I'm looking for something a bit more unusual than a standard house.
I'll have a proper chat with DH about the next move and see what he thinks. He's probably feeling a bit of pressure as sole earner as well!