Practicalities of doing a PhD at a distance (ESRC studentship)

[MaybeDoctor]

I have toyed with the idea of doing a PhD for a long time and, in my early 40s, I think it is a case of now or never!

I currently have a fixed-term contract that comes to an end next autumn, so starting a PhD then would fit well. I also have some ongoing freelance work.

My aim is to seek a PhD studentship from ESRC, but I am wondering how close I need to be to the institution in question. Some of the academics I might approach for supervision are further away. What would the position be on working from home on a full-time ESRC studentship? How often would I need to visit the institution? I live within fairly easy reach of a major institution in my field and can use their library (as an alumnus), but they are likely to be highly competitive for PhD entry. I have a school-age child.

I don't particularly desire a career in academia as my skills lie more in the policy/practice areas. So I wouldn't particularly need or want to do all the conference-attending and article-writing that might be necessary if I was pursuing that direction. Completion would be my overriding goal.

My circumstances mean that I can only do this on the basis of funding, however I could consider some of the fee-remission schemes if I did it part time.

Thanks for any input!

Bear in mind the possibility of compulsory or at least highly desirable research skills courses. Personally I don't think it's a great idea to do a PhD at a distance from the institution - you miss out on so much and this would ring alarm bells for me as a supervisor.

Depends how far in my view. I did my PhD in one city while living in London, about an hour away by train (this was frowned upon by the institution but my supervisor moved and I didn't want to physically move with them). It worked for me in one sense (I had an ESRC studentship but was also doing a fair amount of paid work to afford to live reasonably comfortably as at that time a single person in London) and I completed quite comfortably within three years. Depending on the subject it is quite normal to work a fair amount at home/independently.

However, I was not part of the life of the university/department, didn't build strong networks, and I didn't socialise or see other PhD students or even academics very often. Certainly, I was at a disadvantage when I started my academic career and ten years on I have only just realised the longer-term effects! This might not be so important to you if you don't intend to pursue an academic career but on the other hand it might matter to your supervisor.

Personally, if you were able to secure an ESRC studentship - which are highly competitive and prestigious - as a supervisor I would be prepared to be quite flexible on where you are located. And I say that as a supervisor to a student who in fact does have an ESRC studentship and who lives a reasonable distance from campus and only comes in for compulsory courses, meetings and a bit of teaching. The amount varies across the year. I'm OK with that because I live around two hours from campus and therefore don't go in that often either (the pros and cons of that are another story altogether)!

Thanks for the input. It is social sciences, so obviously a lot of independent study.

There are a couple of institutions about 50 miles away - I could see myself being able to attend once or twice a week.

There is another about 80 miles away, so I wouldn’t want to do that more than a couple of times per month. But that one is very prestigious!

Does research methods training tend to be in the day or evening? Is it ever online?

In my experience, research training is generally during the day. Rarely on-line as far as I know. The timing and amount of your presence on campus will of course differ over the three years (or longer if part-time). Probably more during the first year, and less during the second, when you are doing your fieldwork. During your third year you may feel especially isolated and so value more contact with colleagues.

Couple of times a month during your first year/first couple of terms would probably not be enough. During your first year there may be times when you have to go in two or three days a week, but equally times when you do not need to go in at all.

When looking for a supervisor don't let concerns around distance give a false impression of your enthusiasm if you know what I mean.

Hmmm, I'm in two minds about this to be honest.

On the one hand, I think it's really important for PhD students to be physically around the Department.They get to know people, make friends with other PhD students, and generally just get involved in Departmental life (e.g. going for coffee). I think a lot of issues of isolation and stress can be compounded when students are some distance away from support networks.

On the other hand, I live about 80 miles from where I work so I'm not around very much. I don't think this is particularly problematic for me in terms of knowing colleagues and getting involved though I do miss out on things like spontaneous coffee.

From a supervisors perspective, I'd have no problem at all if my student lived some distance from the University as long as they were able to get to all the compulsory stuff, and to attend supervisions regularly. There is, though, always scope for phone calls and Skype supervisions.

Just one point of advice more generally - avoid telling potential supervisors that you're not interested in an academic career. I only take on PhD students who I can publish with, or collaborate with in the longer term. If a potential student told me they weren't interested in an academic career, I'd be reluctant to take them on.

In our DTC, you would need to come in for two half days every week in the first year to take part in the core training (unless you already have a degree with a high proportion of research methods training). This is compulsory and a condition of you having an +1 ESRC grant.

Outside that, the minimum I expect is that they come for a face-to-face supervision once a month and attend the various other things the department puts on for them which probably means another day per month.

They are expected to attend conferences as part of their professional development (there is a minimum amount of professional development, which includes going to conferences, seminars, more in-depth methods training, etc. that they have to do every year. I forget how much exactly, but it has to be recorded and submitted to the DTC and, I think, ESRC).

When discussing with potential supervisors, they will want to know (if) you are willing to be flexible. We tend to look less favourably on people who plan to be located far away (unless they are doing fieldwork) because we have had problems getting them to attend compulsory things, agree a time for supervision, etc. which causes problems for us with the DTC administrators.

I would be a bit reluctant, less for the keeping in touch with supervisors, which can be done via Skype, or for library access as 90% or more of what you need will be online, but more from the point of view of practical and emotional support. While students do work remotely and are successful, a PhD is a lonely road, and those who drop out are more often than not, the ones who rarely come in. Obviously its difficult to know whether they don't come in, because they want to drop out, or they drop out because they don't come in - but there is a definite link.

By the way also, Research Councils, including ESRC, have to report on research outcomes in order to justify their continued funding. So while you may not intend to publish/ attend conferences, there is a push to do so, not least because there's not much point in doing research if no one gets to know about it - at least from a funder's perspective.

In my experience it is relatively easy to be accepted to do a PhD because funding is your responsibility. You will need references - preferably from known and respected colleagues in other universities who know your work from a recent MA. The status of the institution in general is less important than the department (existing funded students) degree of fit between proposed research and potential supervisors speciality and their record of previous successful supervision. Some departments will have pre-agreed funded studentships for which you can apply (ESRC application is first and then departmental or self/funding).

ESRC expects an academic career to follow and age impacts on how long this can be. A PhD is training for a career and public funding can't really be justified if there are no plans to have a career as there is no return through teaching or research to offset investment. Awards are extremely competitive - the ESRC publishes areas it is focusing on and applications should be tailored accordingly. Departments are less focused but tend to favour MA students they already know who want to conduct research that fits with staff who are willing to supervise.

You will need to attend at least one day a week in the first year - you are initially an Mphil student for the first year and have to successfully upgrade to PhD. After that you need to attend at least once a month for supervision meetings. You will be expected to publish, present papers, attend conferences etc.

Our ESRC 1 + 3's are very very competitive, typically there are a handful of awards per year across several universities and multiple disciplines. You will find it very hard to get a +3 on its own now, you need an ESRC accredited Masters or equivalent, they won't just accept some research methods training in a Masters.

I also agree with everyone that you will be expected to be part of the research community to some extent, though working from home also ok. You can do more minimal outputs if you want, but surely if you want do work in policy, then writing academic papers and attending policy-facing conferences is useful CV stuff anyway? I wouldn't take on a student who wasn't interested in those things and said so openly.

My experience is 20 years old now as I am a full time carer to my two autistic sons. My MA was accredited (specifically research methods degree). I did get +3 funding from the ESRC but there were only about 10 awards nationally that year I believe.

OP - how old is your first degree? Departmental funding might be a better bet but not if you say you don't want/need to be research active. The competition is fierce and you need to show potential. If you don't want to self fund you have to focus more on what you have to give and less on what you want to receive.

Many thanks for all the responses, especially personal experiences. It has been really helpful and helped me to look more realistically at some of the further-afield institutions.

Bear in mind the possibility of compulsory or at least highly desirable research skills courses.
Yes, that's a good point and it prompts me to find out when/where these would be as part of my enquiries.

Just one point of advice more generally - avoid telling potential supervisors that you're not interested in an academic career.
Yes, I totally get that and see the veiled insult of telling supervisors that you are not interested in doing what they do! I think that what I was trying to convey was that I already have a well-established career, so it isn't so vitally important to me to network and get contacts in the academic world as it might be for a person who is just starting out. Also, in my field it is quite common for people to transfer to academia at a later age after a career in practice, or a spell for a third-sector organisation. Nor am I averse to working in academia, it is just that it isn't my main/only goal in doing the PhD. In fairness, I do also know several people who have had RCUK funding but not continued within academia. I fully intend to remain in the field, whether or not this entails a traditional academic post will remain to be seen - it is not as if I want to do a PhD in Economics then go off to work for Goldman Sachs!

'Conferences'
I think I had got the wrong end of the stick from previous threads and thought that these were mostly related to career advancement/self promotion for academics. However, if they are important from an ESRC perspective then I would certainly do them.

You can do more minimal outputs if you want, but surely if you want do work in policy, then writing academic papers and attending policy-facing conferences is useful CV stuff anyway? I wouldn't take on a student who wasn't interested in those things and said so openly.
To a certain extent, I already do this kind of thing as my work sits on the interface between policy, practice and research. At various times I attend conferences, sit on committees, speak at events and I currently have a book chapter in press.

Question: I noticed this statement on the ESRC website.

We have also set a target for all DTPs and Centres for Doctoral Training (CDTs) that at least 30% of each cohort should be engaged in some form of non-academic collaboration

Have any of you observed this in practice?

Thanks.

We have CASE studentships. These are ESRC studentships co-funded by a non-academic organisation - in our case mainly charities and professional bodies. Was there something specific you wanted to know?

Thanks - yes, I saw the bit about CASE studentships.
But this was in the more general page about ESRC strategy. Do you think they are talking about the same thing?

I was wondering if more general collaboration could count eg. organisations providing access to data, research that also feeds into
their strategic objectives..

Funding doesn't seem likely as the organisations I work with don't tend to have two spare brass farthings to rub together!

You can see on ESRC's website what they consider non-academic collaboration. It is basically CASE studentships, the internships programme and various types of Knowledge Exchange.

KE covers a lot of things, and realistically, if you are talking about engaging with an external organisation, when assessing your proposal my questions would be about feasibility and potential for impact, not whether it might help the university achieve a fairly arbitrary and ambiguous target.

On the subject of saying you aren't interested in an academic career, for me, the problem has nothing to do with being insulted by your views on my profession or career choices or where you ultimately want to work. It is that by saying you don't want an academic career and that means you don't want to go to conferences or write articles or engage with your department or discipline in any real way, you come across as completely disinterested in anything academic, and a PhD is an academic piece of work. There are academic standards and conventions that you have to meet if you want to get a PhD.

As a potential supervisor, I would want to know that you are willing and able to do those things and I won't have to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to coax half-hearted and barely passable work out of you because you aren't interested in reading widely, in thinking critically about your own and others' research, in engaging with different theoretical, epistemological and ontological perspectives, etc., etc. I need to know that you aren't going to produce a very good policy report and think that should be enough, because it isn't. Ultimately, when it comes to PhD applicants, people can pick and choose who is put forward for funding, and if there is any suggestion at all that someone is going to be a pain to supervise, it won't be them.

Just one point of advice more generally - avoid telling potential supervisors that you're not interested in an academic career.

Yes, I totally get that and see the veiled insult of telling supervisors that you are not interested in doing what they do!

It's not a thinly veiled insult; I totally get why someone wouldn't want to work in academia but I wouldn't waste time supervising their PhD. I only supervise students who want to (short-term) publish papers and/or become collaborators (longer-term). Those students tend to be those who want academic careers.

I wouldn’t want to supervise someone who had no interest in academia, publishing papers or attending conferences.

Thank you for the further comments.

To further clarify my intention regarding an academic career. I think it would be disingenuous of me to say 'I want an academic career' because it would be patently obvious to anyone blessed with good eyesight that a fair proportion of my career is already behind me! I have been in the workplace for 22 years and in my field for 19 years. I already have 'a career' that I could go back to if no opportunities in academia materialise. In fairness, many threads on this very forum don't present academia as an attractive prospect! But I certainly don't rule out working in an academic context once a PhD is behind me and, bearing in mind the responses on this thread, will answer appropriately during any admissions process. I am serious about this and have no intention of wasting anyone's time or being 'a pain' to supervise .

have already clarified that I would attend conferences upthread.

Publishing/collaboration - I have already collaborated with a senior academic on a book chapter and see no reason why I wouldn't do so again in future. I just wouldn't want it to distract from the main goal of submitting my thesis.

Thanks again for the input. Since starting the thread I have spotted a studentship that is very relevant to me and, following an email enquiry, have been encouraged to apply. I may return to the thread in the spring to let you know how I have got on.