Academics Chat Thread

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I believe the old Chat thread has fallen off the front page of this section, and I thought it might be time to reinstate it. I know it's only sporadically useful, but sometimes it's nice, right?

I am a lowly postdoctoral English Lit type. Finished my PhD in 2014, teaching associate for a couple of years, and now part-time while DD is a baby. I'm currently working frantically to get my book manuscript to the publisher by my deadline (October), and also trying to regain enthusiasm for the job market.

Who else is lurking around here?

I don't work at weekends - SL in humanities at an RG, two v young children (4 and 2). Love my research and career is going well on that front but have a huge admin job at the moment which I am fed up of and also don't respect my institution at all, which I find demoralising. Wish I could feel proud of where I work and what we do/stand for but really don't. Not sure if this means I should move or whether everywhere is much the same these days. (Am also in an odd position re discipline which complicates matters.)

Same here, kids age one and three, am very firm about not working weekends, not that I could even If I wanted to...

Hi,

I have no PhD but contemplating on getting one. Can I join?

Of course you're welcome to join.

I almost never work weekends. And avoid evenings where possible. This is why I so rarely publish anything, of course. I'm not giving up my life (and my health) to the university and it's unreasonable expectations.

Thanks, Arbitrary!

If you are a single parent, with no-one to take the children, it must be impossible to get anything done other than when they are in childcare.

What I see with my male collegues, though, almost without exception (the ones with kids) is their wives a) will move anywhere in the world to support their careers, new male lecturers are always rocking up from Russia or Europe with wife, perhaps baby on way, women rarely so- often they come alone, leave partner behind, or are older and are going to commute b) once here, the partner/wives facilitate them traveling to conferences/working evenings and weekends all the time- I often hear them say, I took the kids out on the weekend as X (male prof) had to work etc.

The interesting thing is, these women are often equally educated as their husbands, have PhDs. perhaps met in grad school and also wanted an academic career. It's obvious though, after a few years of traveling and facilitating their husband's academic career, and perhaps taking part-time work such as teaching jobs/academic admin in the uni to bring in money- their husband is on track for SL or beyond, they are finding it hard to even get a foot on the ladder and may even be experiencing the 'oh don't bother with them, they are X's wife' type dismissive thinking about their own academic status.

I'm not saying everyone should work weekends! I'm saying that most academic men with wives and children are facilitated to work weekends if they want to, as a choice. That doesn't seem the case for a lot of women academics.

Yy summer. I was saying this to DH a while ago when I was thinking about the narrative in the media of men doing important research and how it takes over their lives. And I said, I have a first and breezed through a PhD and had time abroad and got papers and grants and fellowships and am doing Serious Work. But I feel still, deep down, that my work is less important than his. And I feel bad about working outside my (part time!) hours.

He told me I was humble bragging but actually I was brag humbling

Since then I have worked a few Saturdays - the DC love having a day with him (he doesn't see them much in the week). I don't feel bad about it. I love my work.

Hmm. I'm an imposter too, not working in academia or studying just now. I've been working in my field for ~15 years and I've had a possible PhD topic bubbling away for the past 2 years-ish. But I just can't decide whether it's worth a punt or not? I've got young kids, a money-pit house and I'd like to get some time to myself one day, and I'm fairly confident that a PhD in and of itself won't magically open any doors for me that I couldn't prise open professionally in time. BUT, but, but, I think this research area is woefully under-explored and much needed, I think it could (help) make a genuinely useful contribution to civic society, I think it would consolidate my knowledge and further my understanding and that would help me feel more confident (legitimate?). And I'm a good student. But I've been out of academia since doing my Masters. I've pretty much forgotten how to write academically.

So, what to do? Thoughts? Advice? Wise words? Thank you!

I regularly work Sun am if (as usual) I have shaved a bit off during the week for the after school club being cancelled)medical appointments/school appointments etc. I am so looking forward to DS' being able to get himself to school and back (secondary age) so I can stop juggling quite so much

Have not done any work today as yet but will this eve. Flagging though! Just to try and keep on top of things really, especially with teaching approaching. Agree 're the medical appts / school clubs etc taking time. I have to find another way to replace it!

If you are a single parent, with no-one to take the children, it must be impossible to get anything done other than when they are in childcare.

Not necessarily - it depends on the children. Mine were able to self occupy for several hours (reading etc) from a young age.

I agree that women more often facilitate men's careers than the other way round, though. (I refuse to do this and do travel/work evenings and weekends when I want to, forcing partner to take on domestic duties.)

I worry that threads like this make people who aren't working weekends/evenings feel bad. Coming from the US, I've noticed that a lot of people work very long hours but have rather low productivity. It's not the number of hours worked but what you achieve that really matters. In my experience, female academics with children often work quite productively during their office hours, more so than the typical middle aged male academic whose wife takes care of everything at home so he can work longer hours.

This thread is very timely for me. I worked all last weekend on referencing (yes really) for new book, and have pulled two really late ones this weekend writing a lecture. It's really rare for me to do that and I am noticing that I am feeling irritable, set upon and teary.

Yes should have said that I am also very productive research wise despite (or perhaps partly because?) I don't work evenings and weekends. I regularly teach with absolute minimal/practically no preparation though, sometimes surprisingly successfully - it slows me down a bit which can be good as I have a tendency to pitch too high/try to cover too much - but I don't worry too much when it's not great. I do also think about research quite a lot in the shower/while washing up/going for a swim etc - I mean think through arguments, bigger picture etc. Pre-children I used to work much longer hours but didn't really ruminate in this way - instead spent time stressing about relationships and whether I would ever meet anyone and have children! My husband is also an academic and we have a similar attitude to evening/weekend working - officially neither of us do it though in practice he has more exceptions than me. He also travels slightly more but there's not much in it (and I'm starting to do more now kids are a tiny bit older and I've started to be invited to do keynotes etc quite regularly). V much agree about the gendering in many academic marriages though - rather depressing.

For me the strict rules re working hours predate children actually - I have had major depressions and once a manic episode so a healthy schedule is non negotiable for me.

Thanks user for that comment. I very rarely work weekends, unless I'm away from home. Occasionally I finish up something urgent in the evening. But usually I'm recovering from my day/getting the house in order, in the evening. I'm on a FB group where everyone seems to work weekends, and have lovely quiet children that require no attention.

I like being married to a non-academic by the way.

I feel like a lack of keynotes is a gap in my CV though. Not quite sure why I've never been asked or really what it would add!

SL in humanities and I very rarely work weekends and if it i do it's sat or sun morning on something straightforward and urgent (e.g. proofs or teaching prep), and occasionally reading if I'm feeling behind. I would be further ahead if I worked evenings and weekends but it simple isn't poss with the family and DH's job (non-academic & v high pressure). I'm so used to it and i don't even want to work those times and am almost grateful that circumstances have got me out of the habit, as pre marriage and kids if I wasn't socialising/asleep I was working.
kaladisa I am the precise opposite - pre-kids and mad busy family life I was always ruminating, whereas these days I only think of work when I am actually sat at my desk (which has had a negative impact on productivity for sure)

sorry kalidasa

How do you deal with the anxiety / panic of the sheer load waiting for you on Monday? I think working has turned into my coping strategy ... at least I'm doing something etc etc but it's killing me.

I'm reading posts about strict schedules with interest, but also feeling a bit lacking! I've never managed anything resembling a 'healthy' 9-5, no weekends type of work. I work best in short bursts and often get a really good stint in from about 9pm to 1am. I keep worrying that I ought to try harder to get myself onto a more typical pattern and I'd be more productive, but part of me wonders if that's really true.

I'm afraid that I have the opposite issue to that noted by user7214743615 - I'm part of an academic community which is BIG on discouraging evening/weekend work lately (not my actual work community, where they encourage me to work every hour possible) - but I really can't keep up with my workload during term time without evenings and reasonable chunks of weekends. It's not that I work badly/inefficiently - because I know I don't, and this certainly wasn't an issue during my PhD or last job. So it seems to me that it's the impossible workload! But I do find when I'm reading message after message about people who don't work extra hours that I start to wonder whether it is my problem after all...

There's no way to win, basically!

Deianira I often work either a Sat or Sun morning til about 1/2pm in the term-time to keep on top of admin, marking, prepare for the week, I also struggle to get it all done in the time available as our teaching classes have increased hugely compared with say 5 years ago, so it's double the marking and email responding.

I also think it's a matter of preference, I'd rather take it a tiny bit easier in the week and spread it out a bit more, that's the good part about academia or at least my part of it- there's flexible working hours and no-one is checking on these as long as the job is done.

I don't work weekends or evenings, and I feel like I'm quite clearly falling behind compared to colleagues. However, the falling behind is only more recently, when my health plus child has limited me to a more 40 hr week rather than he 60-70 hr week I used to manage under the same situation!

I was never able to work evenings, as I found it took a good 3-4 hrs after work before I could manage to fall asleep, so I would just work long days instead (actually, this was an early sign of my health issues, I just didn't realise it!). And I decided to work weekdays only as a PhD student - was doing ridiculous hours and decided if I couldn't get a PhD under my terms I didn't want one after all. So I used to regularly do 12+ hour days.

But now I can't really get more than 8-9 hours in a in work day, as DD is in the equation. I suppose it is my own preference that I don't just wake up and leave before she wakes and get home after her bedtime, but doing that would not only make me miss my daughter but also put a strain on my marriage, as DH does the majority of childcare already and is well ready to handover when I get home.

LRD your working pattern actually sounds like my DH's! even to the midnight good hours. He can't manage sustained concentration beyond 2-3 hrs, and is so much a night owl. He often takes a nap after I head to bed ~10pm and then works 11pm-2am or so. I don't think working against your biology is a good thing. It can take some time to figure out what makes you most productive - I now know that short spurts are terrible for me, I do much better to do marathons with long breaks between (with occassionnal 10-15 minute breaks in the marathon, not hours).

With regards to "how do you get everything done", I have decided not to care as much - I don't do much teaching prep (I am lucky that we mainly team teach so I don't have to prepare a whole new module, basically, ever) and don't really mind that much any more if the students don't like me (as I'm not male and not particularly motherly to them I know they won't anyway).

I say no to things that aren't that interesting (collaborations that won't be very exciting, people wanting my advice on something who aren't prepared to give me authorship). And I don't write enough papers, I know.

I've just spotted a really excellent opportunity which is to be a director for one of the Global Challenges calls (the projects all last about 18 months for about the same time period so while they are all running). It would be amazing - it's right up my street research wise (we put in two applications and didn't get either of them despite us being really strong candidates) - but all they are offering is a 0.3 buyout of teaching, and even if my department were willing, I know it would be at least a full time job, with lots of travel and I have already decided to reduce conference travel this academic year for the sake of my sanity/the DCs.

LRD it sounds like you work at the times that suits you , which I reckon is a plus. My optimal work schedule is morning til 1pm, long break (used to walk a lot), then from 4-8 or so. Can't do it anymore due to kids & DH (kids bedtime, then DH home around 8/9pm - if I work after that I would never see him!) so pretty much 9-5 now. I regret the 4-8pm stint and on the odd occasion I can work early evening I'm more productive. But what can you do!

Yeah would definitely achieve more (research-wise) on a 60-70 hour week but have a better balance not doing this. I don't get the impression any of colleagues do this regularly either (m or f)

'and don't really mind that much any more if the students don't like me (as I'm not male and not particularly motherly to them I know they won't anyway).

Ugh...so depressingly true. Oh to be an average, white male lecturer (especially in my predominantly female student field).