Academics Chat Thread

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I believe the old Chat thread has fallen off the front page of this section, and I thought it might be time to reinstate it. I know it's only sporadically useful, but sometimes it's nice, right?

I am a lowly postdoctoral English Lit type. Finished my PhD in 2014, teaching associate for a couple of years, and now part-time while DD is a baby. I'm currently working frantically to get my book manuscript to the publisher by my deadline (October), and also trying to regain enthusiasm for the job market.

Who else is lurking around here?

My cutoffs are 1. is the organiser a non-profit and 2. are there people doing this professionally who would expect to be paid, and am I unfair competition for them.

That's an interesting point, LaDaronne. I hadn't thought of the unfair competition angle. I must give that some thought. It's so lacking in transparency: I suspect that they pay non-academics and not academics.

And to add to the dilemma: does one bother to say why you're turning them down?

Yes, I think that you should absolutely be explicit about expecting to be paid in this situation (and that that's why you're turning them down) - otherwise they will never change! I've heard of some colleagues in my area saying this for TV production/advisory work, or other work which involves profit for other people, and it has started to shift expectations slightly.

They are not even paying expenses?

Yeah my other red line is hey mate if thit shit is actually going to cost me money then NOPE.

So I've had three emails this morning from a Crazy Helicopter Parent sad about her daughter failing a module. So far, so normal, you might think. But here's the twist: CHP is actually a colleague at an institution I might conceivably want to get a job at one day, so I can't just tell her to sod off. DILEMMA.

"I am sorry your DD is disappointed over her results. She can make an appointment to see me to discuss the way forward."

Would that work? Says sod off without saying sod off?

Actually what she's saying is that the module in question is discriminatory and shouldn't exist. I actually don't disagree with her and tried to get it removed earlier this year but was outvoted. However, said module is clearly detailed in the course content which is freely available online, so, ya know, it's kind of tough titty if her daughter didn't read it but signed up regardless.

I see.

I remember when I was an undergraduate, not reading module descriptions and signing up for them. But I also did realise quickly and dropped them... I remember my adviser asking me what advice I was given and I had to confess that I did not ask for advice... The key is to drop 'em before exams ... Haha ...

Ah, the foolishness of youth unfortunately for her this one is a core module, basically taught in every XXXX degree in the country, so she can't drop it.

I am a bit curious now what this module is ...

I'll pm you if you like!

Could you?

(Only if you don't mind. I'm only curious...)

Interesting, Deianira. The BBC are worst for this, as they genuinely think you should be honoured they even thought to ask you, while independent journalists are worse for asking you to effectively do their reading for them, then being even more cheeky by not citing you.

Ah, exploitation. Ain’t it great!

No worries NEAE, will do it now :-)

I see now. Thank you.

Hey, how is everyone's new year going?

I think I mentioned sometime (in the summer?), I was thinking of going for Prof. I've decided to do it. And now I'm working on the application, and I feel like I'll want to hand it in and then go hide under a rock to get away from all the self-aggrandising things in it. But all the advice I get is I have to pitch things like that. Does anyone else feel like this? I'm sucking it up and doing it, but it just feels so wrong. It's all true, but so are less dramatic and more natural ways of saying things to me. But I'm told that won't get promotion...

I know someone recently turned down for Prof, apparently wasn't self-aggrandizing enough and didn't do the whole 'I'm a leader in my field' thing so the advice you have received is probably correct. Good on you and fingers crossed!

Ooh, good luck murmuration (it's me, LRD, just fancied a NC).

I hate the puffed-up language too. I've just done a couple of fellowship applications and I really noticed how good the profs who sponsored me were at this kind of stuff. The bit I find really cringey is writing about why your sponsor is perfect for you, which in my case means me (lowly postdoc) writing gushingly about Eminent Prof Sponsor. It just feels so horribly patronising to waffle about 'Prof X is an outstanding leader in her field, winner of this prestigious grant and that prestigious grant, founder of this brilliant initiative, blah blah'. And yet I was told quite clearly that this was what I had to do.

Can you enlist a sympathetic friend who inject some grandiosity for you? Sometimes a friend of mine and I do that for each other. It is actually quite fun to do someone else's puffing-up.

Thanks Orchid and Sarah/LRD :)

Our Dept has a whole committee who looks at applications and gives feedback! I was going to say so not friends, but actually one friend is on it! She got Prof last year. I was going to ask her to look at my application, but I guess that is a bit redundant now we've been told who the committee is. Although I imagine the committee is going to say "not impressive enough, make it more" rather than actually doing it for me. I may be able to ask her after to share her insight when I get my feedback...

Key thing for a professor: you have to be able to PROFESS your subject. Which means being able to articulate clearly and succinctly, for a non-specialist audience, what the key contribution of your research is, what the key research questions are, and why they matter, and to whom they matter. That can often be the thing dividing not-quite-there-yet and yes-clearly-professorship-time. It's not about listing what you've done or what other people say about it, but it's about you yourself being able to articulate what is important about what you do.

(yes, I've sat on promotions committees...)

That can often be the thing dividing not-quite-there-yet and yes-clearly-professorship-time. It's not about listing what you've done or what other people say about it, but it's about you yourself being able to articulate what is important about what you do.

But an awful lot of people (particularly men) are promoted without being able to do this.

I don't disagree however that this is the way the game must be played.

I am parking the promotions idea this year.

I don't want to be a Professor. I want to be a Reader. Then I can sit around all day and read.

Interesting ommm. Although I'm not sure how much that has to do with things I've been advised to do, like putting "world-leading" in bold... that just seems like, um, advertisement or something. But I'm playing the game.

never - hmm, I think I would rather sit around all day reading rather than professing, too. But I have a sneaking suspicion that's not quite what those mean

I have just now sent my first request to someone to be an external reference - somehow that seems more of a 'statement' than telling locals. And makes me feel somehow vulnerable, even just requesting. And potentially professionally embarrassing,I don't get it - whether or not they agree to write, as they now know I'm trying! I understand it can take a few tries to get through...

And he said yes! (the reference) That's a nice boost of confidence, that he replied so quickly and positively. Now I just need to think of someone international to ask...

Perhaps we could start a bank of useful phrases to describe our brilliance? I have been doing mine and am starting to run out of different ways to say "leading". Here are some of my current go-tos:

Pioneered/pioneering
Piloted (sometimes combined with innovative)
Under my direction
Influential/successful
Milestone in the field
Cutting-edge
High quality
Strength to strength
Sole responsibility/international collaboration
Classic/definitive