Do you feel valued? Does it matter? Is it ever possible?!

[Hedgehoghogger]

And if you do who by?

I'm reader level, relatively young (34), non RG but red brick institution. On paper high achiever. I bring in money, have lots of PhD students, international reputation, 4 papers, books, 4 impact, lots of public engagement, regularly cited in policy blah blah blah ... whilst also running a course, teaching, personal students etc.

The problem is I am not valued by management. Nasty rejection letter for promotion listing all my faults but no positives, no positive feedback, control of ideas handed to other staff ... alongside the typical continually being told need to do more (and then more... and then a bit more thanks. Although no actual thanks obviously).

We have also had somewhat of a shift to valuing teaching over research, with teaching staff (no PhD) getting lots of promotions to be on the same scale - so we now have lots of readers and professors who have never done any research. Teaching of course very valuable but I resent having to do a similar teaching load and then the research as well, and whereas the research staff struggled to get to that grade, others can be promoted on their teaching only meaning research staff are being held back as they can't meet the grade on their research. It's just a miserable situation to be in. Of course, teaching staff most likely feel we are valued.

So I'm miserable and having my yearly 'should I move / commute' debate. Difficult to actually move as school age children and divorced so considering a long commute for an agreement of 2 - 3 days in the office during term time arrangement.

But then I think would I just be miserable elsewhere too? Is everyone feeling this way? Does anyone feel valued by management (and do you have any vacancies ). Does anyone else manage to feel valued their students and from their research and think sod management? How do you get to thinking that way? Or is HE as a sector doomed with the introduction of TEF and needing to do it all amazingly? What else is there for an academic to do?! Apart from buy lottery tickets (but even then would we actually be happy).

I'm finding myself withdrawing and not bothering to try and progress, thinking I could just go for the 'easier' life of staying here (house 10 minutes drive away). But ...

PP - I might stick it on my computer! And yes I think part of me wants a respectful equal relationship or something!

This has really helped thank you. I am going to spend some time emotionally detaching and seeing the positives ... And then see what happens.

clever, I'm going to bump the chat thread in this section, in case it's of us to you.

OP - I have nothing to contribute except a pleasant example of failure. I'm 32 and still postdoc. You sound to be doing amazing things to me!

'In case it's of use to you,' even.

A reader would not make this error.

Currently calculating commuting costs, transfering to costs and I think I'd prefer the wine. Happy to share LRD!

Now just have to work out how not to let the bastards get me down 🤔

Enough wine, and the bastards may cease to matter?

This is my current plan

I also agree that the contributions of @user7214743615 are simply gold dust.
The wisest person on MN.

Without being too identifying, we have very specific criteria that determine the level a chair is at (e.g. these specific roles, this amount of 4 star papers, over this amount of funding). I exceed them.

I really do get that this is frustrating, but these criteria can never be set in stone, as there is inevitably variation by field and subfield i.e. it can be easier to achieve these criteria in some fields so they are the bare minimum in such fields. This plays as a rule, in addition to departmental and university politics.

I find it very frustrating that my own institution in practice applies very different (harsher) criteria to STEM than it does to disciplines such as social sciences: many STEM researchers meet the listed criteria but have to far exceed them to get promoted.

And, without being so specific as to identify myself, I myself have felt frustrated that I was meeting all the named criteria to be pushed to the top of professorial pay scales - but I was not actually given such pay until I presented an offer from abroad. In practice, these criteria are irrelevant: professors only get to these levels if they have offers from elsewhere, and this practice discriminates against women who are unwilling to move for family reasons.

(BTW, since the actual REF scores per output are not made public, I have HUGE issues with "4 star papers" being used as a criterion. In my experience of doing mock REFs both internally and at other institutions, mock grading is highly subjective, with many lower level institutions over-grading and the grading in general having huge subject and gender biases.)

Amen @user7214743615 (as usual) - mock REFs are bullshit.

Yes ... and tying it to performance does not help the system at all.

Our targets are all discipline specific which makes it even more fun ...

I feel very lucky to be valued by my colleagues and the institution. I'm a good all-rounder, rather than a star. I've have done all the Departmental admin jobs including HoD, enjoy teaching and have received more than the average rate of RCUK research funding for my discipline.

But academia is a tough profession - it's disguised competitiveness is tough, I find.

If you could go to a Chair in another institution, you will find revenge is sweet on an institution that doesn't value you. I did - although my revenge was on an individual rather than an institution - a senior person in the Department who had - I'm ashamed to say - bullied me in all sorts of trivial ways.

This popped up on my blog feed this morning:

wonkhe.com/blogs/the-rise-of-academic-ill-health/

Really worth a read.

Holly - I must stop envisaging the revenge. My resignation letter will be 4* at this rate 😂

I've decided to go for a post which seems full on but flexible with an ethos that presenteeism doesn't work. I'm really hoping as it's my perfect post. We shall see.

I don't mind pressure. I do mind being told as I was this week 'why would we reduce your teaching load because you're doing excellent resesarch. You've shown us you can do both '

And that article is amazing. I'm really suffering with unexplained anxiety at the moment. Explains a lot.

I am echoing previous comments here but I decided early on that it was better to get my sense of value from how my research was viewed externally, the impact it made and my working relationship with external collaborators. I therefore decoupled from senior internal politics including committees and any extras that were mainly time wasting. I went part time for the family so time was at a premium.
Eventually I was headhunted at a period when it was known that I was seriously prepared to move and then the internal recognition came with the retention offer.

Although it is frustrating that many men and some women are very good at self promotion in HE politics and attracting favours it does n't mean that their senior posts are n't well merited as well, especially as being a professor usually requires more time wasting activities.

I think feeling valued should come from making a contribution in what you find most interesting and if that is better achieved elsewhere then move.

You speak a lot of sense senior. I certainly find value externally. It's either working out whether the negativity / lack of value internally can be over ridden by that - or working out how not to care. It's complicated by the fact we really lack research culture and my research is strong.

I'm mid application for a post which is a big commute but they've promised flexibility. We shall see. Applying will not hurt.

As well as pursuing your current application make sure to discretely disseminate externally that you are considering a move.

I would also suggest looking at other external responsibilities such as for grant award panels etc. Those provide further ammunition to reduce teaching or whatever.

Finally you could suggest / organise an external advisory review of your research / department. At the least that will allow external endorsements of the quality of your work as well as help for research strategy and planning impact cases.
Your senior colleagues are more likely to take notice of external suggestions of what is needed to support you.

I would also suggest looking at other external responsibilities such as for grant award panels etc. Those provide further ammunition to reduce teaching or whatever.

I don't think it does in many institutions - time spent on panels, journal editorships is often meant to come out of research time. So before taking such things on it is good to think through whether the time spent will be worth it, in terms of benefitting career, networking, understanding the inner workings of research councils etc.

That is where negotiating is required user .

Please come and negotiate for me then - nobody gets discounts on teaching for serving on research council committees at my institution because pretty much everybody does this (and is expected to be producing research at high enough level to be asked to do this).

OP may find it easier if she is indeed much more research active than colleagues.

user my comments are directed to OP's situation
IME it is all a matter of context and what you can offer that is beyond the standard.

Out of interest though how many national research council positions are available in your research area?

Sadly I sit on one of the colleges, am an editor etc etc. Makes no difference. Major research leadership role. I run a degree programme. My PhD students are in double figures. Impact case study. Teach full 4 modules. Personal tutor. I'm drowning. Nny their own calculations my load is twice as high as it should be. But oh no I'm not overworked and cant stop anything

I've picked all this up over time. So grasping at straws that starting afresh somewhere might at least help straighten out what I'm doing for a bit.

Add in being a single parent and

By their ...

I am an interloper on the thread as just a lawyer (although I do write law books and lecture too). I always think it can be helpful for people to look at lives and careers in the round and perhaps if you will have to tread water where you are for a few years (because of small children or you are too young for promotion just yet) to do a few other things - perhaps take on less (I like the just say no link above - I often think I've managed for a good few years my work and home because of that ability - the nice rejection - cannot help but go to XYZ who is very good.....) but do something else that interests you - perhaps some small spin off but potentially lucrative business which could be your next career or combined with academia?

In law people do move between practising and academia. In science (I do a lot of IP law too) I have often worked with academics who go into business, set up companies, launch the next best seller drug etc. The most profitable English writer wrote a text book in English sold to the Chinese I think and they lectured at Middlesex ex poly.

This is my alternate plan ... I write books which sell fairly well. Considering building that instead of pushing forward academically. Still need to figure out how not to care what management think then though.

Hedgehog it does sound as though you have problems saying no.

I would be surprised if you do not get the other post. You can then gage what your department is prepared to reduce in your teaching workload to retain you and take it from there. If you are receiving sufficient external income from your books could going part-time (with a pro rata reduction in teaching) be another option?
In the meantime, work on not caring about management approbation and fruitless targets since you are manifestly extremely successful in so many areas and have the ability to supplement your income independently.