Finally a sense of hope again in my academic career - but so many lost years

[dodi1978]

I don't really know what I want out of this post, maybe some kind words from people who have experienced similar issues!

Finished my PhD 2007, but had first full time lecturer post from Summer 2006 (lucky, I know). Post not very research-focused though so only stayed there for two years, then changed institution. Again, permanent full-time post.

Things went really well for a few years, some good publications in highly ranked journals (out of my PhD). Then things went to pot - no success in getting further funding, research group issues when I finally got some external funding so we still haven't published from that project, institution suddenly raising the bar sky-high (I was close to being able to apply for promotion about 3 years in when the criteria were changed). No research funding meant no data and very little publications. Complete loss of confidence and two maternity leaves didn't help, in particular as becoming a mum meant I couldn't do long days any more, as I'd always done before... Applied for promotion 2015 but was rejected based on something that wasn't even in my original targets. And then had a really difficult year with teaching before my second maternity leave, leaving me with not so great MEQ scores (they had always been very good before, so I am not just... crap!)

I am now just back from my second maternity leave and things are finally looking up. I'm part of a research group and we have gathered good data with some internal funding. I've started to write a paper and more are in preparation with other members of the group. Found somebody internally (in another department) who I share lots of interests with, so possibilities for further collaboration.

In other words, I feel a sense of hope for the first time in years! However, the earliest I can apply for promotion to SL again is November 2018 (my HoD advised against trying this year as I don't have much beyond my first application that was rejected). IF I get it... and only if, the promotion wouldn't be active until August 2019.
I am out of increments on the lecturer scale, which means only paltry inflation increases for two years, and with nursery fees rising all the time I'll start loosing money :-)!

Anyway, I just feel a slight sense of annoyance about having 'lost' three or four years where I was just miserable in my job. Also... has anyone every in the world of academia taken 13 years to be promoted from lecturer to senior lecturer ?

Yes I do know someone who has taken this long. They did the same as you, got a lecturing post very quickly but didn't get promoted at their original institution, went a couple of times, was refused, moved and then had to sit it out at lecturer level in the new institution for a long time. Eventually got there. I've also taken a long time- due to two maternity leaves, long post-doc period and changes in the way that SL has been applied, I also lost out when the criteria changed having watched (mostly) men skip through with fewer publications and fewer grants than me just months earlier. Is galling, but this stuff doesn't happen as quickly as it used to. My PhD period was 6 years due to mat leave, post-doc at least 5 years but spend much less time than you at lecturer level.

I think it does go in peaks and troughs- if you've been good in the past, you can be good again, with a bit of space and some good collaborators!

I would also say that the automatic move from L to SL has been all but abolished at our institution and people are having to fight more for every single move up the ladder. I honestly don't think most of my colleagues would have got promoted under the current regime. It's a way of containing costs, that simple, plus you do end up, in a difficult environment where it's hard for people to move, with a top heavy academic body unless you want to start making redundancies, so one way to cope with this is to make it harder to progress. It's bad luck if you are in one of these times.

I know people who got PhDs in 2007 (i.e. 10 years ago), have been producing world leading research (in science) and have still not got permanent positions. Once they do get permanent positions, they will need to sit on lecturer level for a few years, despite having publication records outdoing many professors. You are very lucky relative to them.

In fact, the norm in my area is to do six years or so postdoc before getting a permanent position. That means it is rare to become senior lecturer in less than 10 years post PhD, even without maternity leave.

I do agree that institutions are making promotions harder to keep down costs. At the same time, the standards have in the past been very different between different fields - with areas like mine insisting on fantastic records of publications/grant income while in other fields becoming senior lecturer within 5-8 years of PhD was much easier. The problem is that the harsh requirements of areas like mine are being pushed onto every field, when the reverse should have happened!

Thanks for your insights. Yes, I know, in many ways I am lucky, but I seen people with PhDs in the same year going to reader or PROFESSOR level! Mind you, they generally don't have kids and you can call them at all hours of the day. Most other colleagues of my vintage have at least moved on to SL level.
I am in a humanities subject by the way, where doing many years of postdoc work is not as common as perhaps in the sciences. But yes, I was lucky regarding my permanent positions. I think I was just really unlucky to get into a cycle of institutional decisions (e.g. on promotion), the funding climate, my own mental state (confidence) going all against me for years. It looks as if this year I can finally free myself from it... wish my luck :-)!

Well, I sit on promotion panels and I do not think I have seen a single case of somebody with less than 10 years since PhD becoming a professor in the last few years. It is not the norm, across any subject area, even for those who get very large research grants.

It's easy to look at one or two exceptions to the rule and conclude everyone is going faster than you but so what if they are, and they aren't, not these days anyway. I know one or two professors under 40 and they are basically phenomenal. There are lots of SL's in their 50's and older, not everyone can be a professor anyway!

You're not alone.

I took ten years to move from lecturer to senior lecturer, largely because I took some very bad advice from a previous head of department not to apply for promotion when I got a multi-million-pound grant but to wait a couple of years and then jump straight to reader.

The grant award coincided almost to the day with the birth of DS, who nearly died at 9 months, and from that moment on I felt like my head was only just above water for about five years.

In the end my new HoD almost had to fight my anxiety to get me to apply for a promotion to SL, at which point my junior lecturer status in comparison with my burgeoning international reputation was getting more and more embarrassing; I'd stopped putting my job title on my business cards.

Also, a friend of mine was refused promotion to SL in the humanities with THREE BOOKS. Don't underestimate the power of sexism; in her case it was also that her current HoD really hated her sub discipline. She fought it and won, and a few years on is now a professor in her late 40s.

Another friend was turned down for SL at Oxbridge in her tenth year as lecturer; moved to another top RG institution, and ten years later is not only a professor but has just been made an FBA.

So there is always hope :-)

I'm really glad things are looking up for you. It's always peaks and troughs in academia. Long may your peak last!

I agree about not underestimating sexism, and bias from senior members of your department. Looking around my own department, and departments where I am external examiner, there are people who are clearly on the wrong level and who are not being supported to apply for promotion....

Many people think that sexism is just as issue in STEM subjects, but the roll out of Athena SWAN beyond STEM has brought to light a lot of gender issues in career progression in humanities, social sciences etc.

user I completely agree with this and can think of several examples off the top of my head where women have been held longer at a particular level, refused promotion, not encouraged to go forward, whereas men have- my experience is that the bar is often raised and criteria for promotion often very stringently applied for women but not for some men.