PhD and childcare

[agnesrose86]

I am starting a full time funded PhD in October. I have 3 young children and worrying about how I am going to afford childcare. My bursary is tax free so does that mean that HMRC won't class me as 'working'? In which case, I presumably won't be entitled to the 30 hours free childcare or tax free childcare due to be introduced next year? If anyone could share their knowledge or experience it would be much appreciated.

PeteMe that is a shame. Do you think we can start a petition

@mamamma I think we should join forces with @Louar as she has already got the ball rolling? I have a few contacts who could help with publicity etc too.

The THES article is from two years ago. Nothing changed.

There are countries such as Holland that do treat students as employees. PhD students in Holland receive a taxable, pensionable salary. They are hence eligible for all tax deductions on childcare.

The cost in Holland: far fewer PhD students for the same amount of research funding. A four year PhD position in Holland costs almost as much as three years of a postdoctoral position.

I would be utterly astonished if either the government or universities agreed to go in this direction.

The MP of Cambridge raised this in Sep:

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-09-04/7551/

The Secretary of State for Education is clearly misinformed if he or she thinks the PhD students can apply for Childcare Grant (they are not eligible)

I can't read the TES article but I think what we are asking is different. We are asking the government to treat our PhD work as 'work' so we can be eligible for the 30 hours free childcare too.

We are asking the government to treat our PhD work as 'work' so we can be eligible for the 30 hours free childcare too.

But from a legal perspective it is hard to treat a PhD stipend as pay for childcare purposes but not for tax, national insurance, mandatory pension contributions, maternity rights, other workers' rights. There are so many implications to paying PhD students as workers that it is very unlikely to happen.

Hi @PeteMe and @mamma and anyone else interested.

Thanks for your interest. It's certainly something I think needs to be addressed more adequately.

Who knows how many parents are in the same position - I assume lots with no time or energy or resources to try and engage.

Great idea on meeting MP - I've been thinking about the same myself as I'm not sure how best to move forward. I'm also going to follow up with the NUS (they seem to have the best knowledge of postgrad parents from online info) about how best to coordinate a campaign.

I'll aim to get back to you about there I'm at with it by the end of next week.

Very keen to try something with wider engagement of parents affected...I keep getting responses that seem to see it as a personal issue for me, not me raising a systemic issue...

Great to know that the issues were raised before the deal was signed and that others are pushing MP's...

Thanks for the input and let me know of any progress or activities (fruitless or not) to date.

Hi
I'm a 2nd PhD student with 2 years of funding remaining, and my wife has just had a baby. My PhD university is in Glasgow, Scotland. My research is laboratory based so i'm rarely home with my family wife and kids who live in Coventry, England.
My wife has been told by Tax Credits that as i am unemployed, despite being 300 miles away, she cannot claim any childcare assistance if she returns to work. This doesn't sound right to me, has anyone had a similar experience.

@paulswift yes that is the situation most of us find ourself in. The only work around is getting a 16hour weekly job. Or claim other benefits such as housing benefit. It is really a big shame

Hi Louar, I'd write a letter if I could actually get my head around the issues! I love the idea if student finance departments being able to help, but sadly they haven't got a clue (to be fair there aren't many pregnant PhD students at my Uni) and I get confused every time I try to read up, bodes well for my research capacity eh :-)

To be absolutely crystal clear I'm not asking for special treatment, I just want to get unambiguous advice on what I am entitled to and how I access it.

Apparently (in Scotland) universities have a discretionary fund with no upper limit payable for childcare costs. All of the money that they are allocated goes into one pot and if they don't use it they loose it annually. I don't know if this is the case for England or Wales. The document that I found online is detailed below. It's for the academic year 2015-16, so it may not be up to date,but i'm going to investigate further. it also says that my local Education Authority have funding available.
Student Awards Agency Scotland and Scottish Funding Council
Further & Higher Education Childcare Funds Guidance
Academic Year 2015-2016

Hi All

It's great that you are all out there and active, but a shame it's because we're all stuck between a rock and a hard place!

I have requested a meeting with my MP (I'm awaiting a response) and have asked for an update from the NUS (again awaiting). I'll keep this forum updated with any developments. Let me know if you contact the NUS/research councils too.

I see your point regarding making us 'employees' @user2019697 however since the eligibility criteria for childcare support are specific to it and well off families are eligible (who aren't eligible for other support) it shouldn't by itself create mayhem. We do meet the criteria for childcare support (if there could be a caveat in just this element of support counting stipends).

I guess a devils advocate might say free childcare for well off (in my case low end of the range) families is inappropriate but that's what we have in the UK now and so it should be consistent for all.

I guess the burden on the budget does depend on how many of us there are...not sure anyone knows.

Issues surrounding this that have been resolved somewhat, and give me hope, are:
-All research councils do offer paid maternity leave.
-Child benefit entitlement also covers NI contributions for one parent.
-Effectively the lifetime ISA (if you're young enough) gives a pension contribution of sorts from government if you can afford some contributions.

I'm now a bit manic until I stop for maternity but plan to pick this up in the new year and continue discussing it with those in the know.

I'll keep an eye out for updates here and will pass on any developments from my end.

All the best

Lou

See if you can strike up some mutual support arrangements with other PhD students and early career researchers in your university. My institution has a parents' network and there's a lot of helping each other out / looking after each others' kids going on.

One of my students has three children. Not easy, it really isn't, but she's done it and is graduating in January. Very proud of her!

Hi @PeteMe and @mamamma and anyone else

I just met with my MP and she thinks this is worth pursuing and will be raising it with parliament and tweeting (with the obligatory baby photo). Her angle seemed to be the disproportionate impact on women and having looked through the paperwork has seen stipend income wasn't discussed during the scheme development.

Key activities she suggested are getting in touch with as many MP's as possible (particularly conservative) and raising with uni teams encouraging them to highlight this as an unintended consequence of the current system in the political sphere.

I will be contacting the MP's in constituencies where my studies are based (Waveney in Suffolk and Exeter) which are not the same as where I live - Bristol south. Are any of you able to add some weight behind this and raise it with your MP's? Hopefully a bit on concerted effort now will raise awareness.

I hope this helps to make it seem worth some effort - I know I feel pretty frustrated that the system and my position leave our family in a funny no mans land.

All the best with your studies and engagement in this issue! I'll keep you posted on any progress and if you can too it would be much appreciated

Lou

Postnote...
The disparity between conventional jobs and student work is highlighted by my situation:

As a part time PhD student, undertaking childcare when not 'working', I earn under the personal tax allowance. So if I had a conventional ‘income’ I wouldn’t be paying tax either but our family would be eligible for tax free childcare and 30 hours care from age 3.

I have also noted that for the tax-free childcare grandparents etc can also contribute to the pot without themselves being assessed for taxable income (as I understand) – this seems to be counter intuitive if the tax paid by contributors is the issue. www.gov.uk/government/news/tax-free-childcare-10-things-parents-should-know ‘It’s also not just the parents who can pay into the account - if grandparents, other family members or employers want to pay in, then they can’

By the way, they count PhD stipend as income if you are sponsoring a non-brit family member to join you from abroad. - That shows they can count stipend as income for various purposes I guess.

@juan

Sorry this is prob a stupid question - this applies to the 15 hours 2 year old scheme as well right?

Starting a phd in October, and baby will turn 2 in March. Looks like I will need to keep up p/t work!

Hello PhD parents
Just an update on the lack of news so far. I'm chasing my uni and MP for an update but imagine the issue is being raised but doesn't have the weight behind it (I guess not enough parents with the energy to invest in the vague possibility of an adequate solution).

I have taken on a part-time self-employed role to enable my family to be eligible for 30 hours for our 3 year old and a tax free account for our baby and understand I don't have to meet minimum hours/income criteria for my first year of business. Hopefully I will get enough work over the year but if not it looks like a sensible stop gap for us. I can't imagine being able to work the hours needed in my write up year but thought some of you may be in a similar boat and be able to consider it.

Good luck with your studies and families all!

Lou