Anyone feel like life is passing them by due to being an academic?

[BaileysWithIce]

I just end up spending so many weekends trying to catch up on work I couldn't finish during the week, I'm starting to feel like life is passing me by.

I was a bit like this as a PhD student and as a post-doc. Now I'm a lecturer with lots of teaching as well as research commitments, I'm starting to feel like academia is slowly 'stealing' my life.

I wish I knew how to change it - both before my husband leaves me, and before I wake up in ten years' time with very few memories apart from sitting in front of the computer...

Maybe that's the thing about "Not high in the league table" universities. We can't get PhD students so we have to hire RAs. Why would you hire an expensive RA if you can attract 2 PhD students a yr instead for (?) similar money.

Chatted with a colleague recently who is an RA in an engineering dept... think she's been their RA on/off for decades. Loads of student & admissions duties, too.

Okay, I had the impression a Prof's life was just more, more, more, so I see that is about right...

Since mat leave, I feel like I'm running a race I can't catch up. The amount of things I do that is not work is minimal - like struggling to make the once a month mum+tots group I go to. I've missed half of the last 6 months. I have to admit that I ended up here because I kept expecting to 'fail' and then have to go find some alternate career, and now feel kind of stuck - I made it to academics! Wasn't that the goal? I'm scared to give up the flexibility and friendly colleagues I have for exploring anything else.

We have a very small number of 'career RAs', in STEM, but I think it is unusual. Ours are staff in big research centres where some central funding is able to tide over a week or two here and there while contracts flip from one project to another. For getting on to the traditional RA-on-a-3-year-grant thing, I am seeing questions about people who seem to just go from one post to another, as part of the funding councils impetus is to train people, so I imagine it is harder and harder to get a new post as time goes on.

In my field one of the issues in staying a RA is that the relevant UK research councils are currently funding RAs only at the lowest points on the RA scale, i.e. at rates appropriate to those within 0-3 years of PhD, and they won't allow us to hire at higher points on the scale. (They wouldn't even allow us to top up the money ourselves and hire more experienced RAs.)

I do occasionally wonder if I am mad trying to continue ft but colleagues who are pt tell me that they think they do the same amount of work but for less money. What are the experiences of people here?

That's shocking disquistiones!

It's Tuesday evening, ten to 9 and I'm sitting here...reading a paper ready for tomorrow's lecture.

That's why I kept FT, ocelot. Here, only people who go 50-60% or less seem to do something less, and far, far more than half a salary or a bit more! 80% is basically full time - doing everything in 4 days. At my Uni they even tried to add one of my major duties - that takes 50% of my time, as a FT person, for one semester - on to an 80% person to cover me for mat leave without taking away any of her duties! She actually managed to get out of it by changing Schools... I spoke with a Prof a while ago who said she'd been on an 80% contract for 10 years and realised that she was doing a FT job. She talked to her Head and got her contract changed, but kept her working pattern. (No 10 years of back-pay, though!)

I estimate I'm doing maybe 70-90% of the time I did before mat leave, but as it's still over 40 hrs a week, I figure I'm still working more than I'm paid for. Only thing is, it is obviously research that suffers, and I do believe they have lowered REF return expectations for part-time people.

I worry about this. I am finishing a PhD, and since my funding has ended, balancing this with a great deal of teaching in order to support myself. Since a long-term relationship which ended a year and a half ago I've been single - partly because I couldn't justify the time spent dating when I gave it a try. I felt that I wanted to spend those hours getting some work done instead, or seeing friends I already had rather than trying to make new connections. I have been thinking that it's just the crunch time while I finish my PhD - I'll get back to seeing family/meeting people/having fun when I'm done, but I've already lined up articles that need revising/resubmitting/finishing in the few months post submission, plus a major conference, plus the remainder of the teaching for the year, let alone all the job applications. So I can't realistically see my work hours lessening much if at all once the thesis is done, and have recently started to wonder whether, if I keep on the academic track, I'll ever manage to scrape together the time to sort out the life things I also want, like a partner, maybe a family. Any tips people have or found helpful, especially in the early years, would be very welcome.

Deianira, in your position I would be considering other options to an academic career. I wish I had.
Probably not what you mean though.

What hours are you working, now, Deianara? Most academics put in 60-70 hour weeks - of actual working, so often longer than that including commuting, MNing over lunch, etc. I used to be gone 6:30am-8pm weekdays, and often had to put in evening work (no weekends, see below, but weekends are very common for academics to work) regularly.

I'm currently tracking my hours carefully as I'm doing 'flexi' time. I usually work about 42-45 hours (minus lunch breaks, snacks, etc), a bit over 50 on big weeks. And I am falling desperately behind. But my health plus family mean I can't really put in anymore.

My best advice is start as you plan to go on. I decided partway through my PhD that I didn't want a PhD if I couldn't live my life the way I wanted, and that basically meant taking weekends off. So I stopped working on weekends, and have only done a few weekends (conferences, paper/grant deadlines) in the intervening 15 years or so. If you can get the work done and are happy with the rest of you're life, you're good. But don't expect to it to get any less. In my experience, it just gets more. So get more efficient, and learn to prioritise - some things simply won't get done. There are papers we've simply never written, and probably won't get there (although just came out with something where the work was done 4 years ago!).

FaFoutis sadly I've been bitten - I want to at least give it a good shot. I love the work - the research and the teaching both - and I do know that it comes with a willingness to accept a lot of sacrifices/difficulties. I am just wondering whether it's possible to balance things just a little more, so I don't have to sacrifice all the 'life' stuff for the work stuff.

murmuration - at least 70 hours, probably more like 80-90 most weeks at the moment. I do full working days on both weekends, plus every working day includes 4 hours or so in the evening, especially if I include marking/teaching prep as work (which, I feel it is)! I hope that things could get back down around the 70 mark once the thesis is done at least, but I do worry that it could get too easy to get into this pattern of hours and not ever regain control. So I like what you say about trying to start as I plan to go on - although, is there not an element of recognising that these first years are bound to involve lots of extra work, since (I'm in the Humanities) everything is so difficult at the ECR stage?

I'm 15 years in and I can't balance it (I'm Humanities too).

The only people I know who can are married men.

I'm afraid that's probably about right, then Deianara. I'm sorry, I wouldn't hold out hope about the workload getting less. The struggles of ECR will be replaced by admin duties, being Chair of things, grant panels, conference organisation, giving feedback to ECR on their grants and papers :) , hours upon hours of tedious meetings, hours upon hours of simply responding to emails before able to get work done (a former Head of School had an email signature which included a statement along the lines of "On 3 March 20XX, I recieved over 300 non-trivial emails. I read and reply to all, but it may take some time."). It doesn't really let up - once you get your first grant, you need to already be looking for your second. One book out? Have you talked to publishers about your second yet? And so on. I'm in STEM, but my husband is (was) in Humanities and I've socialised with mid-career Humanities at events. Their current issue seems to be the pressure to keep coming out with books. Everything I've seen seems to suggest the workload increases, not decreases.

I once asked a Prof and Dean how she managed all that she did. Her answer was "Two things: I got more efficient, and they give me an assistant". Practice can increasing efficiency - I am definitely more efficient now than when I was an ECR! I do more in the same amount of time. I also don't go to coffee, eat lunch on my own in my office usually working but sometimes MNing, tend to skip seminars unless they are very very related to my work, and try to avoid walking places where I might get caught in a conversation. Makes me feel pretty anti-social, but I have to be even more efficient because of my time constraints (without my health issues and a child, I imagine I'd probably be accomplishing about what I am now in 55hr/week instead of 45 -- still not enough, though).

I'd recommend carving out your personal hours now - early on, you may find yourself failing and going over into the night when you just didn't get that lecture done on time, but next year you may decide you don't really to find exactly that image for the slide or you can skip some details... I think you're right that if you set up the working patterns now, you will just keep using them.

70-80 hours???? Jeepers! I am doing about 50 and I think that's too much. What can you say no to? Have you a union rep?

Wow, ocelot! SL and 50hrs/week. How do you do it? When I first got here, an SL (now retired) talked in general terms about of course all academics work 70hr/weeks, and when I told a colleague (Reader) that I was only managing 50hrs now (exaggerating up a bit because I felt self-conscious), her reply was, "That's not enough!"

I know I'm not quite as efficient as I could be, as I let 15 minutes bits in between teaching/meetings go by at times when I can't figure out what to do next or I'm just brain-dead tired and can't think anymore.

I read an article on just this topic recently but annoyingly I now can't find it and I'm not sure where it was. Times Higher Ed maybe? It said most people do not estimate accurately how many hours they are actually working (vs how many hours they are at work which is obviously different!); it also said academics don't/shouldn't need to work extreme hours, and that part of the problem is a culture in which you have to claim/pretend/aspire to working very long hours. I have seen mixed responses to it.

I am a senior lecturer (promoted in the last round) and I certainly do not work more than 40 hours/week. I am on research leave at the moment (though with a lot of projects on the go), but I don't think I do significantly more hours even when teaching intensively, I just don't do much/any research or writing. I don't work in the evenings (or very rarely) and I don't generally work at weekends either - though I will sometimes do an hour or two on a Saturday morning if there has been a major interruption during the week. I try not to answer work emails at evenings or weekends either though I don't always manage it.

I enjoy my work very much but I have very young children (2 and 9 months) neither of whom sleep through the night, no family help, a husband my relationship with whom I think is the single most important thing for both myself and my children, and I have in the past had serious health problems (both physically and earlier on in terms of mental health) so it is really important to me that I strike a balance.

I do work very efficiently - I mean when I am "working" I am actually working very productively c. 90% of the time. I write quickly and I am not too perfectionist, but I am very organised. And I do use 'non-work' time to think about work (e.g. I quite often plan the next paper or chunk of writing while I am swimming).

Obviously I am lucky in that I have a permanent job and despite all the pressure re: REF etc I am past the point where I am worrying about job applications and so on.

I have to say we don't really have a "life" in terms of going out in the evenings or anything like that, but that's not because I am working, it's because given the sleeping situation we have to go to bed by 9.30 just to survive!

That's interesting kalidasa - can you share some tips?

As I said, I am actually tracking every minute, including counting surfing the net over lunch (like now :) ) and tea breaks as 'not work', and I find I am working usually 42-45 hrs/week, although there is the occasionally 35hr/week and the occasional 55/hr week. I'm actually in the office for the most part 50-55 hours a week (in at 7:30-7:45am, out by 5:30-6:30pm).
I feel like I am simply not keeping up. I am definitely working less than I used to, although I recognise my 60-70 hrs of what I used to do may be an overestimate, as I wasn't counting minutes then.

I cluster my classes on 2 days on campus - I often go in on a third day for a meeting but tend to just go in for that and leave again as I get far more done at home. Am ruthless about not hanging around in my office too long (apart from office hours of course) as there are a constant flow of knocks at the door.

I refuse to give feedback on more than one student draft and only give feedback in person. I work on Sun morning on own projects to keep them ticking over (so students get used to never getting a reply to an email over the weekend).

Fortunately, many of my colleagues have kids and work/life balance is something we talk about and try to support each other on (no one contacts you on your research day, no one tries to hold staff meetings via email at the weekend). Perhaps it helps that am not at a RG uni? But this thread is making me feel really bad - I thought I was overworking at 50 hours a week and was trying to get it back down to 45 !!!

I'm not sure murmuration. It's hard to know how other people work in such a solitary job. I know that I find writing quicker/easier than some of my colleagues, and I am also careful to limit teaching prep - I plan the whole course carefully in advance and then limit pre-session prep to about an hour. But a lot of that is just practice/experience I think.

Stay sane ocelot! I think 50 hours on a regular basis is too much. I actually doubt that people really do 70+ hours of actual work on a regular basis, but perhaps I am just a slacker.

I am at an RG uni by the way, in the humanities.

Thankskalidasa! I am ambitious and love my job but really don't want to live to work or become ill through overwork. (History of depression too). It is not worth it!

If ever academic decided tomorrow to work only 40 hours week, what is the worst that would happen? They couldn't sack us all at once.

I do feel like academics are their own worse enemies sometimes.

You are right NotDavid. But I think universities know that most of us will do what it takes a. to keep our own careers moving and b. to do right by our colleagues and students. That's why things like pastoral support and impact aren't given proper workload allocation. II have just been asked to develop yet another module for approval by Jan and am contemplating refusing unless I am relieved of some other work in order to do it, because I am already way above my workload points. But if I don't do it, I know it will land on colleagues who are less specialised in that area and also overloaded themselves. Advice anyone?

I am the same Bailey I cannot get through my workload during the week and always end up working through the weekend and evenings leaving my husband to deal with the kids. He says he feels like a single parent. He's not happy but we cannot afford for me to stop or reduce my hours. I love my subject though and would do it even if I wasn't an academic. Previously I worked for 14 years in industry and I have never ever had to work such long hours as I do now. My health is suffering due to so much sitting at a computer working.

My biggest sadness is that my youngest children are growing up and I am taking virtually no part in their lives. But I don't know how to stop - there are not enough hours in the day even if I worked them all.. I haven't written a paper of my own for about three years (altho still have a long publication record due to co-authorship with my postdocs and PhD students - I spend hours reading their papers!). and I have to keep applying for grants rather than spending the time writing up the results of the last one.

This weekend I have a two hour lecture to write for 9am monday, two long reports for committees next week which are already overdue and a MSc thesis to mark. None of it can be left.

My HOD's answer? Stop doing things so well/thoroughly!

When I was a PhD student academics did have time to read and think as well as write but its very different now - I think it is increasing admin, monitoring , devolution of work from research councils to universities for thing like PhD funding, and admin surrounding teaching that has brought about the change plus a less self-reliant UG student body who think they are still in school!

Yes ocelot it is hard to say no when you know someone else will have to do it - collegiality is great when it works but I am sure we all know senior academics who always manage to avoid doing their fair share - mostly because they are so bad at admin that they - conveniently - cannot be trusted with it! its always the same few who get it all!

Mytholmroyd - I agree: it's also often men who are bad at admin, and get away with it because they twinkle charmingly/ruefully...

My department has those who can always be relied on: and we are the ones who get dumped with stuff, because the HOD knows it will get done. But the alternative to doing it is that you know someone else with to much to do is going to get screwed over.

Deianira I don't want to depress you, but I've been in post for just over 5 years (in a university where we don't have sabbaticals and research leave has to be covered by external/grant income, despite all staff being expected to submit at least 3* submissions for the REF): it gets worse after PhD. If you're humanities/SS, you'll probably go straight to TF for a year, because the people you're against now for entry level lectureships have at least one book published already, and no matter what the JD says, that's what the recruiting will be done on. I TF'd for a year - and because of the teaching PG Cert, had to log all my time etc (a habit I still keep): 9 month contract (until late June) average 120 hours/week, 7 days a week all through (except for Christmas and Easter days; no time for conferences, writing or anything else, because of writing all the new teaching materials for my modules, plus teaching, admin, seminars, pastoral care, meetings etc etc

Then, if you're lucky, like I was, you move to your permanent job: first few years exactly the same as being a TF, because you don't inherit any teaching etc, so preparing all your lectures, materials, classes - plus bigger admin responsibilities, because you now also have service at department, school, faculty and/or university level. First three years, I worked an average of 100 hours a week (same two days in the year off); after that, things got better, because I got the hang of how things worked, argued for a more reasonable work load, and more staff were taken on etc After that, it's seven days a week and weekends until the end of teaching and exam boards: but the summers have got better, once you allow for the endless meetings and appraisals, and bloody, bloody Clearing, which in our case, we don't need to enter, ever, but our HOS insists we do because he thinks it makes him look good if we over-recruit... In practice, then, that's about four weeks per year that I can count of for concentrated research time. Average working week 70 hours in term-time, 50 outside.

In five years, I haven't been on a single date - don't have time; a single holiday - ditto; used all my leave - are you kidding?! When do you think I do research?; made a friend outside of work in my (new) city - why would I? I don't do anything except work.

Someone said they envy us lower down the totem pole with the time to read books: hilarious! I have a pile of journals on my desk about 3 foot high where I've been putting them for when I have time - it's one endless firefight.

In fairness: we have a lot of very unreasonable expectations on us (post-92 going up in the world, but without the wit to realise that other things need to change if we are going also to kick research arse); excessively poor middle- and senior-management; an exceedingly challenging student body, many of whom lead incredibly chaotic lives and have very difficult circumstances, so pastoral issues take me at least 12 hours a week to deal with.

I wish you luck - but it's not a bad idea also to be realistic: and unless you're in sciences (in which case, you have the first round of the post-docs, which weeds out some, the second round, which weeds out others, and then the lectureships, which culls much of the rest of the former student body) you are unlikely to easily meet your future DP. If you're fine being married to your work, as I am, that's not a problem - but if your heart's set on marriage and children, you might want to consider your options. (In my building, where about 200 people work, there are 2 single men, of any age: our male colleagues have a traditional propensity for marrying their students :-/ By contrast, we have quite a number - well, 6 - of happily single women)

Phew, long post: can you tell it's my no work weekend day :-D?

Oh yes! The "learned helplessness" of certain senior colleagues, who are "just no good" at any of the boring stuff! Very annoying. I fear that now I've been promoted I will be in line for some hideous huge admin job once I get back from leave.

I managed to find the article I remembered reading on just this issue:

www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/you-do-not-need-work-80-hours-week-succeed-academia