Nice new corner! Come and chat!

[NeverEverAnythingEver]

We have our new board! Calling all cademics/aspiring academics/fed-up academics - come and chat!

Nobody seriously monitors where we work. If you are lecturing or have any commitment that requires actually physically turning up, you do. If not you don't... Usually we either do a combination of holiday club and me or DH taking time off. When DH takes time off he takes time off. When I take time off usually I work in between peace-keeping and zoo-keeping. We don't have reading week, though I think everyone - students and lecturers - would love one.

We have a reading week to coincide with half term (because our programme leader is keen on having one). So I'm hiding at home trying to write a paper. By the end of Friday I should have submitted it. Hopefully.

It's about the only chance I'll get to do anything resembling research until Easter (and has been the only chance since October half term).

Hmm why am I getting Message is Invalid.

NK5 - congrats on the interview! I'm thinking (hoping) maybe the chat will be to find out what you actually do so that they know what to cover? I wrote down for my director of teaching everything I did for first year last spring, as he really didn't realise everything was needed to make it keep going.

My talk went well, phew. I was really worried, as there were some very aggressive questions from one person throughout the morning, and I was honestly worried I'd burst into tears if he started in on me like that! But while he asked me some questions, I actually had the answers and he wasn't nearly so aggressive. It was after the first break, so I'm wondering if someone had some words with him, as he was better for the rest of the day. At the end of the day, the organiser said to me "well, that went okay for some of the biggest egos in the field all in the same room".

Well done murmur!

Expected JRF rejection in today. It is madness. We have now reached a situation where only those with publications (BEFORE finishing PhD), funded PhD's, and a whole host of other awards are really considered. About 700 people applied last year, so this will have been similar.

That I got the best possible PhD result whilst holding down multiple jobs, and having a disability that precluded full participation in some things makes me just as good as them. But I am regarded as a failure.

Massive amounts of covert discrimination too. I don't care what institutions say - just look at the profiles of some people! In my discipline, I can count the number of disabled academics on one hand. That's across Europe and America. Awful doesn't begin to describe it.

Not this specific rejection that is especially bothering me, but the state of the academic job market as a whole, and the culture within my discipline. Feeling like have wasted years on PhD. And for what?

And of course, I must publish (three papers in development, one now close to submission). That's massive. But point of humanities postdoc is to give time to develop a project and publish. Requirements are getting a bit mad, and people like me who have already have to struggle a fair bit, are now finding that the door is slammed shut.

It is indeed madness God. I don't know how people in humanities do it, in general, even without extra barriers.

I'm heartened to see the number of people announcing on our internal department communications that they are taking 1 or 2 days AL this week, most of whom I know have school aged children. I doubt we'll be going off for a lovely family holiday all of half term but at least there's the precedent for some days out without pretending to WFH and then having people get irritated because you aren't.

Spending the first hour (at least) of today firefighting, I work in a field where a few researchers do fieldwork but everyone else considers that research = lab. A student has applied to me for a PhD who has a plan for mainly fieldwork based research (mainly in the student's country of origin - I've had students do this before). A jobsworth has said they can't do this, and I'm flinging emails left right and centre to ask exactly why they think this is the case and please would they show me where it says this, as they need to get their application in sharpish.

someone just shared this on FB... not really about academics or academia, more about women... but still, a good read. www.huffingtonpost.com/amy-westervelt/having-it-all-kinda-sucks_b_9237772.html

I don't know how people in humanities do it, in general, even without extra barriers.

In my (STEM) field you need half a dozen papers at the moment to get a post-doc. You usually need to move abroad for a post-doc and do 6+ years of post-docs before getting a long-term position. Typically to get a long-term tenure-track position you need to get an ERC grant or Royal Society URF or equivalent - almost no permanent positions are actually advertised, they are created by getting 5 year fellowships.

Only about 10% of students manage to stay in academia (though most want to) and about a third of post-docs get permanent positions. So quitting academia aged 32+ after six years of working abroad is very common.

Unremarkably very few women stay in the field - why would they, when they can easily get a finance job paying 3-10 times a professor's pay straight after PhDs and avoid moving countries?

I don't think of myself as that old but it's here that I can clearly see the halcyon days of my "youth". I did two, overseas, postdocs but some of my contemporaries went straight into a lectureship after their PhD, some with only maybe 1 or 2 publications actually out (though those would usually be bench type people who can collect data quickly and easily, part of my postdoc perambulations was due to not having my PhD papers out yet because all the data were only in at the end of the whole PhD).

Of course there are also my contemporaries who are no longer in academia.

and no I'm not bitter at all that my contemporaries who are male and/or have no children are now all professors

Ah Godstopper, sorry to hear that I have seen the criteria for postdocs and I wonder if the fact that mine took longer will go against me. Where's the box on the application form to explain that it went over due to many things including ethics taking a year, needing to do part time work once the stipend ran out (I'm the 'breadwinner'), my parents getting severely ill at the same time, oh and supervisor changes.

I've not been on the thread much because I don't have much to report and feeling very disconnected from academia. In the weird land of thesis resubmission, don't live near to my institution so not been in since my viva in October.

I'm finding the market for research jobs is still bit grim: nothing to apply for since December. Mind you, was named on a short term tender at a uni I used to work at but I don't think it's been successful. Also, I wonder if it's indicative of the market that I was contacted by a research consultancy that I applied to but didn't get an interview, to say that I had some good skills and they'll let me know if they need contract workers, but also to contact them if I hear of any tenders...
Seriously thinking I'm going to have to retrain, but not sure what to do.

I have a suspicion that taking longer than the perceived norm does, sadly, go against many.

I had a one year break from a part-time PhD to have a cochlear implant/recover from a separate illness. I went from almost total deafness to pretty intense speech and language therapy. I naively thought that would help place me on a more even footing with others (primarily doing it for self, but you know what I mean). So despite that, and despite holding down multiple jobs whilst completing my PhD, some regard it as a failure. Why? I don't know. That shows a determination in very difficult circumstances.

As for Oxford, it has a racist (Rhodes statue!), misogynistic, discriminatory culture. I do regard it as a socially backwards place to be, but of course, the JRF was about all that was going! The one dept. that is really progressive in my area received about 80 apps. for the Expression of Interest in the Leverhulme ECF; so of course, that put me out.

I don't feel able to compete on an equal playing field. I am just as good as everyone else (or presumably, my results would be different). But take a non-traditional route and risk paying dearly for it.

I don't know about retraining. God. Doesn't that depress you? Some recent figures for postdoc apps in my area: 1200, 470, 365. HOW does one even make the short-list in that case?

Gosh, you've got total justification for it taking longer, well done for getting through it all, and for passing your viva so brilliantly. Surely someone with sense would see that as positive attributes and a reason to employ you?
The controlling, research aspect of me thinks 'what are the figures?' How many actual jobs and applicants are out there? I just have this hunch that it's worse right now.

Yes I have felt sad thinking about starting over, but also feels a bit exciting... Might just be me, as I'm sick of things at the moment and wanting the thrill of something new instead.

This is Disquit: papers for a post-doc? Eh. That was sold to us as a place to start publishing post-PhD. I'd say it's about 1-2 papers in my discipline, and those gaining lectureships seem to have about 8-10.

Other than post-doc's, I've noticed a trend towards employing people like me for casual teaching. I've mixed feelings about this: it keeps you doing something, but I'm not convinced that it has real prospects (way to save uni's money).

Same with no real job advertised since Dec. We had the JRF's, the expressions of interest for the Leverhulme ECF, and er, nothing. British Academy in the summer, but figures make for grim reading.

I have seen similar numbers for my own JRF rejections lately - it's very discouraging, since it's hard to see how you can have a chance against so many applicants. Still, sadly, that is the current situation in my field - there isn't anything I/we can do about it!

Meanwhile, it has suddenly been sprung upon me that there are OA requirements for my publications (RCUK). This is irritating in itself, but may also have been passed on far too late - I work in a field where Open Access is still not widespread or popular, and I already have a publication at the (far too slow - just me who struggles with revising without totally rewriting?) revise and resubmit stage - I'm not intending to pull it out now to try and comply with these requirements, nor do I think it would be best for my CV for me to aim for OA publication at this stage, above the 'better' journals which don't obviously have an OA route. Very tricky, and would have been nice to have known about all this earlier in the process, so that I had more time to explore my options!

Thanks :) Aggressive Man gave his talk, and only got through about half of it due to all the interruptions. I'm pretty sure it was some sort of collective 'pay back', although he seemed to thoroughly enjoy being challenged, so I'm not sure it worked. This workshop is an area that's just on the fringes of my work, and I must say I'm glad people are not like this in my main area!

NK5, it sounds like you're marketable and that your current location isn't treating you well. It's not 'flitting' to move after 12 years! I've been talking with people about frustration with promotion processes and things, and have been told (and I think on this thread, too!) that moving is the way to do it faster. But my issue is I really like where I am, and the people I work with - and hearing about other places makes me appreciate it even more! - so I wouldn't want to move just to get ahead. But if you don't like where you are, I'd say go for it. We have acquired a fair number of people from other places over the years (some of whom have commented on the low turn-over rate compared to where they came from), and they all are fine and valued colleagues. Three in my building, in fact, and I really like them.

And intersting article. And reminded me how glad I am I'm not in the US.

Argh, sounds tough god! I find it massively frustrating the that 'standard' of work expected is on the order of 60-hr weeks and pushing yourself to work all weekend to meet deadlines, etc. So in order to be seen as a 'go-getter' you really need to push yourself to the edge. But then people with disabilities may need to push themselves just to reach what should be considered normal - you know, working 40-hrs (or 37.5 according to HR), having time off in the evenings and weekends, taking breaks, etc. There just isn't anything left to push beyond and reach that super-duper stage that is considered actually caring about your career.

NK I have nice colleagues too. Senior Management is bonkers everywhere, I suspect. Though from the horror stories I hear ours are not quite as bad ...

Rejection from first round of Leverhulme ECF today. Success rate about 5%. Though the rejector did ask me to send him some work and to consider the institution when something else comes up - so that's positive?

Made decision not to apply for anything until a paper is officially under submission. That shouldn't be difficult since nothing has been advertised for three months!

Godstopper - I think that's positive!

The pots of money are decreasing and the expectation to apply for grants is increasing. The success rate is therefore low. I almost wish they'd do it by lottery so that at least one doesn't get the feeling of abject failure ...

I think it's almost funny that people who are pretty bright are subjected to this sort of "you are not good enough" thing all the time.

Deianira

Is there any chance the journal you're currently working with would be ok with your article going into an institutional repository with, say, a 6-12 month embargo? If I understand the RCUK policy correctly then they are happy with 'green' OA and with an embargo up to a certain period if the journal doesn't offer a full bells-and-whistles OA option (which of course is outside the funding capabilities of most early career researchers anyway...). If the journal doesn't have a formal OA policy forbidding this it might be worth asking how they'd feel about this.

You're right that ECRs are in a rubbish position with OA policies, though, as of course most of the prestigious journals either don't have OA or only have the paid-for version available.

Argh! I canNOT believe I have developed yet another cold. My cough was almost gone, I had one more short-lived UTI, and I saw health on the horizon - and now I have a fever and feel absolutely miserable. There is no more slack to 'stop and rest'. I have to keep going. DH is doing night-time with DD tonight: first time ever with me home. I really cannot afford to take any time off work at this point, as I am reaching the point a simple cold (or 30 of them, or whatever it's been, over these last 3+ months now - actually probably about that, as I've had a new one every 3-4 days) will have a measurable negative impact on my career.

There's a grant proposal I need to get in the next 3 weeks - this is my last year for eligibility (annoyingly, they have no considerations for mat leave), so I must submit. I've got plans to talk proposals with someone in a neighbouring town next week, which in normal circumstances one would think a cold a week ahead of time shouldn't matter - but I have completely lost confidence that I will ever not have some kind of infection. I still have to reach out to a collaborator that I've identified, and there's a proposal which at least has a rolling deadline - so I won't be late, but also makes it quite procrastination prone: I intended to submit this autumn!

Deianira - I was wondering something similar to hovis. Actually, when the new rules came out, or rather, when I learned of them which was a few months later, I asked advice and was told to just upload my 'pre-print' to the Uni webserver despite the fact that the publication agreement disallowed that. I guess they were more worried about failing REF requirements than a publisher noticing!

Hovis2001 and murmuration - It looks like this is my best option, yes - and I'm glad to hear that others elsewhere would recommend this course too! The University has been massively pushing the 'gold' route on those of us recently given this information, but having consulted some of my senior colleagues they recommended ignoring that pressure, doing as you say and using the 'green' depository option, so I think I will just try that option and see how it goes down the the journal. It would have been nice if the session I was at hadn't tried to make this seem the less desirable course - it might have saved me some stress!

Good luck with your proposal murmuration.