if you didnt celebrate Christmas, about the FC issue?

[littleducks]

after the other thread i have just started to worry about this

We dont celebrate xmas at all, we are muslim

DD is 3 and is at preschool, i think this is the first year she will really come across Santa etc.

She has seen the Charlie and Lola episode about xmas but hasnt asked about it, she has also watched harry and his dino prog and i think she views it all as the same thing

I expect preschool will do lots of xmassy things, i am not planning on saying anything unless she asks.....but if she does what should i say

My initial thought was to be honest with her, perhaps describe it as a game some mums and kids play but that we dont

But the responses on the other thread made me worry, if she tell another child that FC isnt real will the parents be furious and hate me?

Children need to believe fully and entirely in very far-fetched fantasy, and then to work out that rationally that fantasy is impossible. And they need to do that on their own terms, within the safety of their own family. It is very, very important .

Sorry Anna that is utter rubbish. Children do struggle with the difference between fantasy and reality and one of the tasks of early childhood is sorting out this muddle but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that parents intesifying this muddle by presenting fantasy as reality is helpful in this

But they do have their fantasies. We read all kinds of books to them, let them play all kinds of games that involve make believe. My ds spends whole days pretending to be Bob the builder, but that is his world.
So we do 'collude' with them in their games but I feel the fc thing is a trick that adults play on their children not a game that we are joining in with.

It's not one of the tasks of "early childhood" - it is the task of life. Look how many adults are hoodwinked into believing total fantasy by advertisers, politicians, PR people etc etc.

Safely working out fantasy on your own within your own family is the best way of getting started. It is a benevolent lesson. Much better than spending all your cash in later life on silly junk (or worse).

It is a much more pressing task in early childhood- Are monsters real? Did I cause something bad to happen because I thought something bad etc and yes you need to learn about this in the safety of your home but having adults create fantasies and pretend they are true does not help with this.

There may be other good reasons such as the pleasure it gives but I really dont think you can say it helps with making sense of the world.

I think you are wrong Anna, children learn by being in the world, their interactions with people and experiences help them to make decisions, surely it can't all depend on believing in fc as a child.
And I'm sure lots of people who have been hoodwinked as adults also believed in fc as children.
There is no sense to your statement.

No, I don't agree that it is more pressing in early childhood at all. We construct very far fetched fantasies in early childhood, with the collusion of adults, because, by virtue of the fact that they are very far-fetched, they are much easier to dismantle. Easy lessons for young, inexperienced learners!

The deconstruction of the stories around us becomes much, much harder as we go out into the world - the lessons get ever harder as we grow and go further.

FC is of course just one example of the fantasies of early childhood that needs to be worked out - but it is a particularly huge and universal one in Western society, and therefore one that is especially useful as it is part of our shared learning culture. It is so sweet and fun - why deprive children of such an amazingly joyful lesson?

But unless you are actually psychotic the intensity of really not knowing if something is real or not is not the same when you are an adult. As adults this muddle can live unconsciosly below the surface but we have generally learnt how to live our lives with some skills of discrimination which a two year old just does not have to the same degree.

i have a dodgy keyboard btw!

It is not at all useful for adults to muddle through in the way you describe - far better to have greater consciousness and to make informed decisions about your life.

And the "skills" you describe quickly prove useless if you change culture.

To a degree I have to say that I agree with BonsoirAnna.

I know some families that there are so adament that their children must not get confused by fictional stories that the children seem to have very limited imaginations.

LittleDucks, I would just explain to your dd that FC is part of the Christmas tradition that you don't celebrate. I would have thought that that explanation would suffice.

Personally, I love the Malaysian way of doing things. When we were in Malaysia it seemed that people celebrated everything regardless of their religion, one year Eid fell just before Xmas then a month later it was Chinese New Year and there was a great festive spirit.

It limits the imagination and the development of a sense of perspective, which is also essential for the development of a sense of humour. We all need to be able to think "what if..." in order to make plans for our lives, and fiction allows us to understand that we may safely indulge in the wildest fantasies within the confines of our own mind.

we do it but rather half heartedly.
There was never a great plan, I just dont really get excited about it.
Ds1 never belived in it i dont think and we never really talk about it like some parents do.

DH is Jewish. We don't send cards and we don't have a tree in the house at any point in December.

Whilst I am planning to have a festive dinner with my family and presents and the like for the sprog, I have no intention whatsoever of bringing Santa, reindeer or Jesus into it.

I also don't say to people that Eid or Hannukah are "our" christmas - they're not.

Play it by ear, littleducks, although you might want to let your DD know that other children might be upset if she sets them right about Santa.

Cards, Christmas trees and Father Christmas are not part of the religious Christian tradition, though, but have grown up alongside part of the religious tradition as a cultural add-on.

Cards, Christmas trees and Father Christmas are not part of the religious Christian tradition, though, but have grown up alongside part of the religious tradition as a cultural add-on.

Yes, I know.

But they are not part of DH's culture (they actually make him feel uncomfortable) and are not really part of mine.

I don't feel a need to co-opt them and I don't think the OP should feel she has to either (although it's probably worth explaining what's going on to her DD).

Schools should be set up to accommodate a broad range of cultures, not just the default.

We just pick 'n' mix in our family (DP is French and Jewish, I'm English and Anglican, both non-believers) and take the bits we enjoy and leave the rest

It'd be wrong if you allow her to set other kids right about FC. You'd be disallowinging them their festivities, when no-one disallows yours.

My DH was born muslim. At first (well before I met him) he rejected christmas, but that was because cos didn't understand it.

Now he loves it and participates in it more than he does Eid, as he knows it's only for fun.

If you tell her that it's all hogwash, you'll rob her of something you yourself enjoyed as a child growing up.

FGS, FC and all the fun of December will not make you, your DC or whoever abandon your religion...

Muslims are allowed to just enjoy themselves and have a great time with their children too.

You don't have to cancel christmas just to 'prove' you are a muslim.