The Beatles: Are they objectively excellent?

[FruityFrog]

I'm watching the film Yesterday. It's very good. The premise is that a solar flare or something causes The Beatles to have never existed, everybody forgets them. However, there is one person can remember their songs. He wows people with songs like 'Yesterday' and 'The long and winding road', people keep saying they're the best songs they've ever heard etc etc.

My question is, are they really the best songs ever, objectively? Some are incredibly simple and some super weird. Or are they significant because of what they represented at the time in the 60s, or how people born since then have experienced them through their parents?

You have to consider when theyade their music. They made music that nobody had ever heard before. They used methods in the studio that took weeks to create and perfect.

The thing is nowadays you can do the same in minutes with modern technology but that was not available when they were making music. What they did was genuinely revolutionary.

This may well be true but music doesnt work like that.

Music is a sensory thing that either resonates with you or it doesnt- the Beatles dont resonate with me and even when I consider these things they make zero difference to my desire to listen to them I'm afraid.

I dont think they were.

I concur x

The one that does move me is Shes Leaving Home

I understand that at the time what they did was ground breaking in the same way that Elvis was ground breaking. However with the exception of a couple of songs I'm not a fan of the Beatles and I don't like Elvis either. I was born in 67 so not old enough to have heard them in their 'prime' and my Mum wasn't a fan either so the music I listened to as a child didn't really include them. Hearing most of the famous Beatles songs does nothing for me and the compulsory sing along to Hey Jude at every contrived opportunity makes me want to commit murder.

I hate the way that Paul is perceived to be a national treasure and it's almost rude to say you don't like him or indeed the crap he pumps out now (he's desperate to be relevant but omg 'Chelsea Boots' is appalling as was the one before it). I am The Grinch!

Agreed @SleepingisanArt Chesea Boots and his previous offering are cringingly bad.

I think he should just retire gracefully.

I love their music.

i’m a massive music lover and find the Beatles fascinating. I don’t love all their stuff but some of it is genius. How Lennon and McCartney came together and basically changed the whole face of music is something we haven’t seen on that extreme since (and I also love bands like queen, nirvana and oasis that also changed music)
I was lucky enough to do all the Beatles stuff in Liverpool including going into Paul and John’s childhood homes and it was such a great experience. If anyone is in Liverpool I would totally recommend the tours. The music museum at the docks was also fantastic if you’re into your 90’s indie music.

Agree totally with this. I understand the skill, but they leave me cold.

Some of the Beatles stuff in contrast is very moving.

I think pretty much every song they wrote, other than "Let it be", is dire and I won't listen to them.

My Dad (now 72) always defends them when we have this same discussion by saying at the time they changed music forever, but I think that is just a reflection on how poor other music was at the time.

I think 60’s music is amazing. 60’s and 80’s are the best.

I’ve always preferred the Rolling Stones. I find some of the Beatles songs a bit trite and twee. They produced a huge amount of songs though, in different styles. I love some individual tracks, they are genius. Get Back is a great documentary, seeing McCartney create iconic songs out of pretty much nowhere.

As pp have said, it’s more about cultural impact. Although I do think their songs are great and very catchy!

and as they spanned such a wide variety of styles there should be something for everyone in their back catalogue

i Did think that Film was a wasted opportunity though. Yes obviously there’s be no Oasis but half of the other artists from the 60s would be missing! And would we have many concept albums, without Sargent Pepper setting an example? (It might not have been the first but it was high impact)

This is true. My father in law who is from Liverpool has hated them for all of that time! Husband who is 58 and not born in Liverpool has carried on the tradition.

I know he wrote those. IMO, as I said, they’re not as good

Not as good as which Beatles songs? If you let us know your favourite songs by other Beatles (for the Beatles), I can tell you in a fair amount of detail about Paul’s contribution to them?

What the Beatles achieved in less than a decade was incredible. Their music evolved not just with the general trends of the 60s progressing, but they were experimental taking their own music into many different directions simultaneously. They played with the actual technology of what could be done with music taking it away from the era of single take recordings.

Not many groups would pull off a novelty style record like Yellow Submarine on one side with a melancholy string quartet like Eleanor Rigby on the other. The rest of Revolver has the variety of Here, There and Everywhere and Good Day Sunshine, all musically totally different. A year later there was Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band which is its own musical journey fully exploiting the technology of the time (and album cover art), a long way from Love Me Do 5 years earlier.

They've influenced so many other artists, been covered and written for others. 90s indie music was heavily influenced by 60s guitar groups. The 70s prog rock and concept albums followed the development direction that the Beatles took albums in.

They changed the social direction of being a music lover with Beatlemania, and being a band that made films rather than actors that sang.

I think they are the most culturally important and influentual band that there has been and I bloody love their music, which is both of its time, but so they wrote so many beautiful songs are a joy to sing 50-60 years later.

(So na na na nana na nah to people that don't like them and think they're overhyped and overrated )

It's true that some of their most famous songs are their least good. If you delve into their work from start to end, there are breathtaking, melodic and creative songs in there, that for me, are incomparable. Not all of it is brilliant but at its best, its some of the most perfect rock/pop ever. There is something about their story, their personalities that is extremely British and of the 20th century that I find fascinating. For me, they are absolutely at the heart of what music means to me. Foundational

I grew up with their music. There was so much excitement when they had a new single coming out, most of which went straight to No. 1! 'Yesterday' never fails to make me cry, and I love so many of their songs. I was never a Lennon fan though - Paul was my favourite.

Does anyone remember The Monkees - a group put together in the US specifically to compete with The Beatles?!?

ABBA is much better! 🤣

It’s ok for me not to like Paul’s contributions as much, you know! Or are you hoping to prove to me that I do? I don’t care for most of his most well-known ones and I find Hey Jude, in particular, nauseating - especially knowing the story behind it

My only point is that The Beatles didn’t work in isolation. John’s contributions are all over Paul’s records and vice versa. It’s not a case of ‘Paul’s song’/‘John’s song’, it was a dialectic, a relationship.

Well the three you noted on p1, written by Paul, are three of the Beatles songs I like least. As I said- in my opinion. And ofc they both contributed to almost all the songs. I just find the ones paul wrote mawkish and naff. It’s not a fringe opinion!

Definitely agree they were objectively excellent and feel a lot of people who don't like them probably have never listened to the full scope of their work. Thinking of my favourite Beatles songs, I would never have heard of them had I not gone out of my way to listen to their albums. However, I'm sure that there are countless albums by people I've never heard of with songs on them that I would love but I'll never listen to them. Stresses me out thinking about it.

I'm also in camp Lennon, while still acknowledging that they were great together and did work on each other's songs as well. Happiness is a warm gun, I'm so tired, Strawberry Fields and Don't let me down are some of my favourites and they are distinctly Lennon.