If you support the Green motion that Zionism is racism, please can you explain this to me like I am a child?

[orthrywreeinvicedifthe]

I am politically engaged and have done a lot of reading around the subject, and for transparency I support a two state solution.

But if you believe that Zionism is racism, does this also hold true of all the other countries with official religions? Is it racist to believe that Pakistan exists? I do not understand.

Zionism harms people who are of a different race to those who enforce it. It’s that simple.

They say that all it means is the right for Jews to have self determination, but they leave of the rest of the sentence that explains that self determination comes at the expense of other people s lives, rights and freedoms.

Palestine has been offered a two state solution numerous times.

For those of us who genuinely do hi est self inventories of their biases and prejudices, it's fucking tiresome for people who support killing children to accuse us of antisemitism.

I know it's simply to shut down voices opposed to a democratic nation, supported and funded by other democratic nations, raping, maiming and murdering people.

BTW feel free to advance search me on indigenous rights. I do speak about that where it's mentioned.

And since you started this thread, and asked for responses, it is disingenuous to then imply that people responding are antisemitic. Is your position Islamophobic? Silent on murdering muslim children. Also racist, calling indigenous people the other N word.

You don’t think Isreal seized land? How do you think they got the land? Yes it was given to them but the nakba isn’t a made up word.
Also Northern Ireland still has ongoing issues over seized land and want it handed back to the ‘natives’

Argentina and Spain also want their land handed back to them too, and hopefully in our lifetime we will see that happen. With a Green government I think that is even more possible, they seem to be the only political entity in the UK that care about doing the right thing.

@DebbieSavage Doing the right thing?!! What about the Jewish people who are British? What “right thing” has been done by them? They aren’t even meant to attend a synagogue under the Greens policy! It’s disgusting.

I assume you mean the Falklands and Gibraltar?
Argentinas claim to the Falklands is through Spain not because the Argentinians ‘owned’ it before.
The Gibraltan population doesn’t want to be Spanish not even joint sovereignty otherwise it probably would go to Spain.
Northern Ireland is still part of the UK but not because it refuses to give it up but because there would be civil war

How is giving the Falklands to Argentina 'the right thing' when the Falklanders don't want the Falklands to be given to Argentina, yet giving land to Jews was the wrong thing because the people living on the land didn't want it to happen?

I am not suggesting anything. I am happy to say very plainly that the people who support this motion are anti-Semitic.

What I do not understand is why people view Zionism as racist, whilst not viewing Pakistan as a racist endeavour?

You’ve literally answered the question yourself.

Getting back to the question though, how is Zionism racist but Pakistan’s existence isn’t?

I support the separation of church and state everywhere. It's always discriminatory not to.

I'm pretty sure that some Israeli citizens hold very racist views towards Israeli neighbours and justify their views as an extension of Zionism. Which many of them see as justified because of the centuries of horrible persecution of Jewish people, or the Holocaust, or both. I guess the counter-argument will be people saying the racists are wrong to interpret Zionism like that.

Who decides what the ultimate definition of Zionism is?

Only some Jewish citizens and male Druze are subject to military conscription in Israel. "Every Jew has the unrestricted right to immigrate to Israel and become an Israeli citizen." Those are weird things for a state to decide.

Took me a while to find it, the exact wording of the motion is here, and the top of pg 4 (3 paragraphs) defines Zionism.

For people who condemn the Greens, I want to know which of these is your view:
A) that definition of Zionism is incorrect;
/or/
B) That definition of Zionism is correct but not actually racist.

Ok I've attached it below.

I would take issue with 'this is based upon European settler-colonial systems of domination and oppression' as if the reason for the creation of Israel was for 'Europeans' to 'colonise' that particular area of the Middle East with no regard given to

1. The Holocaust and extreme devastation of the Jews that led directly to the creation of Israel. Trying to portray a group of people who had narrowly survived extermination as conquerors and colonisers seems to be agenda-driven rather than a fair assessment

2. The fact that many Jews already lived there and weren't just plonked there from Europe

3. The fact that many Jews who ended up moving there came from the surrounding Arab states and not just Europe

4. the fact that, like it or not, Jews also consider Israel to be their historic homeland, with reason

5. It wasn't the Jews that created Israel but international agreement

6. the same reasoning could be applied to the creation of Pakistan as a Muslim homeland at almost the same time as Israel and with way more displacement of people and loss of life but there doesn't seem to be a Green Party motion about eradicating Pakistan.

I agree with this part - Zionism is a political ideology which called for the creation – and, now it
exists, the continuity – of a Jewish State.

I cannot believe we are witnessing a mainstream party in the UK, in 2026, treat this as controversial.

For people who condemn the Greens, I want to know which of these is your view:

A - that definition of Zionism is incorrect, or - to be kinder - it's oversimplified.

Framing Zionism as racist against Palestinians because the Israeli government is violent against them oversimplifies the issues and erases how the Israeli government has been violent (even arguably creating apartheid structures) against some Jewish and other populations. It erases that political Zionism isn't the only branch of Zionism. Cultural Zionism and Religious Zionism existed before Political Zionism. Each of these have various subbranches and disagreements between different groups.

Political Zionism does have a racism issue. From the earliest political Zionist writings, they framed it as bringing Western civilization to the 'barbarians'. They included Eastern European and Mizrahi Jews within the latter - this wasn't a Jew vs Palestinian thing, Golda Meir famously discussed how her passport identified her as Palestinian. It was an 'enlightened' in a certain way creating a secure location for themselves, no matter what happened to everyone else. They categorized Jewish groups on ethnicity, religiosity, and other factors which is directly linked to some of the horrible treatment of those populations done by the Israeli government throughout its history to today. One of many examples - Israel bought Moroccan Jewish people from their government to work basically as indentured servants for years -- neither government comes out looking well in this.

Israel is largely build on political Zionism, a specific type that promotes a nationalist fervour to be violently supported. Many Israeli and Jewish groups have spoken out against this.

Hamas and the Palestinian National Authority have largely been build on Islamist nationalistic fervour to be violently supported who have been largely against 'self-determination' or democracy. Many Palestinian groups have spoken out against these authoritarian regimes. The horrible thing for many Palestinians is they are being oppressed by both the Israeli government and their own.

The British Greens not only provide an oversimplified definition of Zionism with no acknowledgement that there are multiple types of Zionism, their motion provides no evidence that their end goal - a single Palestinian state - would result in that state being a democratic state or the people being liberated with any of the motions they've listed.

The focus on Palestine Action, which has promoted violence, when there are so many other options supporting peaceful options like Heal Palestine, Realign Palestine, Builders of the Middle East just off the top of my head... it makes me question their motives - and who is backing them - even more.

there are no motions about the USA or Australia needing to hand back land and control to the natives.

As pp have said, there very much is and has been longer than the modern state of Israel has existed.

I'm Metis and I neither expect or would like British Greens to be involved in the conflicts that have been on-going with the Canadian or US governments.

The last time I was in a conversation on this with one who was discussing how important decolonisation and being pro-Palestinian is, she told me that 'Native Americans are jealous Palestinians still speak their own language". No idea where they got that idea from, all the ones I know are generally supportive of Palestinians even if not with any government involved. I could not find the words to express how sad it was that she had chosen division and spreading that kind of weird idea around in a way like she was trying to score a point about something, I'm not sure what, it came across like she was arguing Palestinians were better at being anti-colonial and that's why we should support them more.

It’s a shame then that the Greens did not feel the need to make a similar statement on Iran, where another woman has just been handed a death sentence for ‘insulting the prophet’ - many others have been punished for not wearing a hijab. Nor on Afghanistan, where daily life is a death sentence of the mind for all women.

Just Israel.

Funny that.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/oct/14/najmeh-amini-blasphemy-death-sentence-insulting-prophet

Because they aren't democracies. They wouldn't give a tiny shit if they had support in the UK.

Israel is a democracy that relies on international support from other democracies. They give a shit.

This isn't controversial. To expect more from democracies. Is it? It's shocking not because of race or religion. But because the people are choosing this. The average Iranian or Afghan has no say and no choice.

But I know that implying or outright accusing people of being antisemitic shuts a lot of people up.

Really dangerous conflating of censure of Israel with hatred of Jewish people. I think that is doing genuine harm.

Is it normal politics to vote to get rid of an (as you have called it) democratic country and replace it with an entirely different country?

Is that normal 'holding a democracy to a higher standard'? Not telling it to do better, imposing sanctions etc, but saying it should no longer exist as a country?

Fair enough point

Brilliant Debbie because that obviouly means the Greens are going to actively campaign and protest for the Mizrahi Jews that make up more than half the population of Israel. They can get their homes and land back from the Arab countries which ethnic cleansed them out.

Helpful people those Greens aren't they. I quite fancy a free holiday home in the country of my heritage.

Doesn't really matter what they think, Zionism worked, there is a state of Israel. We can all agree about if ot was created in a way we approve or disapprove. However that is pointless because it is there with 10 million people to keep safe. Therefore not going anywhere.

Zionism at this point just means to the average zionist that Israel now needs to continue to exist to keep those 10 million Jews, Muslims, Christians and others safe.

Also to provide a safe place for Jews fleeing prejudice else where (They do take other refugees when case is valid too).

Lots of faults as a country but for Greens to vote that only a Pal state should exist or one mixed state whatever it is they mean is pretty racist.

Only a simpleton doesn't know what would happen to the Jews if they don't have Israel. Therefore the motion even if you believe the absolute rubbish they spout about zionists is a racist bit of toilet paper.

I often feel a bit sorry for Israel. There have been over a hundred countries created since 1948 ( not without issues ) but the country that always seems to be getting a public kicking is Israel.

There is one Jewish state, it’s not even that big (about the size of Wales) the vast majority of the population is actually of Palestinian descent. Obviously it was never a state but Syria- Palestine was an area defined by the Romans. So anyone from that area would be genetically Palestinian. This has been bolstered by their neighbours both immediate and further afield kicking out Jews (from ancient settlements) often stripped of property and belongings apart from a small suitcase. Over a million since 1948, roughly 650k settled in Israel with the rest mainly going to U.S. Add this to the other persecutions the Jewish People have suffered and is it any wonder they want self determination?

And had I said that, or agreed with it, you'd have a point. But I didn't.