East of Eden

[Happyinheels]

Oh my goodness! I neeeeeed to find my people to talk about this!

Binge watched the series on Netflix today (off work poorly!).

And wow! How incredible? I’m ashamed to say it’s a classic that I’ve never read so can’t compare it to the book. Anyone read the book and watched the series? How does it compare?

I found myself broken in pieces so many times. And soooo many layers to this saga!

Come my people!!!! Talk to me!

And to add...given the theme of timshel, would Cathy having an abusive upbringing absolve her of her crimes and awful deeds anyway? So many interesting theme to explore and the book and adaptation can be interpreted so many different ways....that's why it's so great!

Wow! This discussion has really had me thinking today!

As I said in my first post, I haven’t read the novel yet, only watched the adaptation, so I’m conscious that my interpretation of Cathy may well further change when I read it.

In the series, I see Cathy as a deeply disturbed and psychologically complex character. I can’t help but wonder whether Steinbeck was exploring the nature versus nurture debate in its rawest form. Are some people inherently cruel, or are we entirely shaped by our experiences? And how much freedom do we have to choose the people we become? Timshel…

The point made about Adam and Lee raising the boys, building a home etc and how Steinbeck challenges traditional expectations of masculinity - we celebrate these men for stepping outside conventional gender roles, for being nurturing, loving and creating a family that doesn’t fit the traditional mould.
So why couldn’t Steinbeck also be challenging traditional femininity through Cathy? She rejects everything society traditionally expects a woman to be — maternal, nurturing, gentle and inherently good. Why must that automatically be interpreted as misogyny rather than another challenge to gender expectations?

I appreciate that Cathy is portrayed negatively, whereas Adam and Lee are portrayed positively, and I can see why that raises questions from a feminist perspective. But I don’t necessarily think portraying a woman as evil equates to saying that all women are evil.

I mentioned earlier how I love Wuthering Heights - look at Heathcliff, he is capable of extraordinary cruelty. Yet we don’t automatically interpret Emily Brontë’s portrayal of him as evidence that she hated men. Instead, we explore his experiences, motivations and the darker aspects of human nature.

I’m also not convinced that the adaptation giving Cathy a traumatic backstory proves Steinbeck’s original characterisation was lacking. Perhaps the absence of an explanation was deliberate. Perhaps we’re simply less comfortable today with the idea that someone - particularly a woman - might be cruel without an obvious reason.

Obviously there’s room for a feminist interpretation, but I wonder whether focusing too heavily on that one perspective risks overlooking the wider philosophical questions Steinbeck was asking about human nature, morality and free will.

I’m really looking forward to reading the novel and seeing whether it changes my thoughts!

I think human nature is that we try to explain away, make sense of someone’s terrible behaviour. We can look at childhood trauma etc and other life shaping events as though that does indeed explain why they behaved the way they did. But the reality is that there isn’t always an answer. But as humans we so desperately need to understand, explain away. And no, I don’t think that the backstory would justify Cathy’s behaviour. Timshel indeed.

Another binge watcher here and DH watched too, so it hits on a number of levels.

So interesting to read your take as someone who has watched the series but not read the book. I completely agree with everything you say tbh, which says alot about the adaption. I've always thought it was an exploration into nature Vs nurture, but he basically leaves it unconcluded, because it's impossible to answer ! The series plays on that well I think.

@Mafsing I have the book arriving tomorrow! And I’m home alone all day Sunday and still getting over a bug so I’m seriously considering binge watching the series all over again - especially now that I know the early childhood trauma didn’t happen in the book. For me, that really does change everything! It’s hard to explain. My whole judgement revolved around that incident.
Fascinating! All of it! Including everyone’s very valuable take on both the series and the novel.

I listened to it on audiobook a couple of months ago, unaware the TV show was coming out.

I have started watching it, but then it was time for Traitors, so I will go back to it 🤣

Unless there's other proof that Steinbeck was a misogynist (and I don't think there seems to be) I really rally against the cry that Kate is a symbol of his hatred for women

Just read his biog and the memoir of his second wife, Gwyn Conger.

He was an abusive cunt. But I don’t expect literary greats to be nice to their wives, simply to create more complex and convincing characters than he succeeded with Cathy.

He channelled his ire at his ex-wives into Cathy; had he channelled himself she might have made a more psychologically authentic arsehole.

I've watched the first three episodes and I must admit to feeling quite underwhelmed. I don't like any of the characters! Gah! I will try another episode tonight and then give up, if it doesn't improve.

I feel like the film with James dean is again a totally different interpretation as its centred on calls and aron and only covers the last section of the book.

I actually like rhe book and both films.

Florence Pugh was honestly phenomenal

Thank you, I was interested to learn of this from you.

The Cathy characterisation is clearly fantastical nonsense and I always thought it misogynistic.

Ah ok interesting. All I have to go on at the moment is the three episodes I’ve watched so I’ll be interested to see where it goes.

I’m a writer so I suppose I’m always analysing characters to see how other writers have put them together. My antagonists are all normal people who have made choices which cause them to spiral towards destruction.