Sick leave rules where you live!

[themosquitoslayer]

Hi, I live abroad, Italy to be precise. I've lived here for a long time. Recently I interviewed a young English guy who has just moved over, he asked how may sick days he gets. I found this question bizarre, how can you know how any days you'll be ill for? If you're ill you say at home, end of story, we don't want you to make yourself worse or infect everyone else.

After a bit of research I found this is the normal thing to ask in UK now. It wasn't a thing when I last worked there over 30 years ago. I asked Italian colleagues if they knew if there was a limit, no one knew. A bit of Googling I discovered it is approx 180 days, depending on which government contract you have, that's not on full pay I should add...

On the other hand the English guy was shocked when I told him if he is ill, he must go to the doctor on day 1 of the illness and get a certificate (which is actually just a code that you send to HR) you cannot be off without one, or you have to use a day of your annual leave to cover it. It is illegal for HR or your boss to ask what illness you have and you are not obliged to say what's wrong when you phone in sick, however a temporary change was made to this during peak Covid. This is standard in all Italy as companies cannot set their own rules, we all have government contracts for the given work sector, that determine our working hours & pay level, similar to UK public sector but for all sectors.

It made me think, do any other countries operate like UK or Italy, they seem worlds apart!

you still have to contact the dr, it cases where it's literally impossible to leave the house they send the code to you by email. Some drs will allow you to go the next day and they back date it provided you contacted them on day 1

I live in Spain and it depends a little on the company but once you have a sick note you get nothing for the first three days, 60% dys 4-15 paid by the company, 60% for days 16-21 (paid by social security) and 75% from day 21. For long illnesses social security can send you to a tribunal and order you back to work if they so decide.
Some employers, like mine, will give you 3 days grace where they pay you 100% and don´t ask for a Drs note until day 4 (self certifying). My husband´s company asks for a Dr´s note from the first day of absence, however.

I know plenty of employers ( not government or public bodies) who will only pay a very limited amount of sick pay .. 5 days is not uncommon. After that, it's SSP, which in no way covers lost pay, it's way less than NMW.
I'm in London, UK.

In Spain my husband always needs a Dr´s note for his work from the first day and he has to physically go to the Dr for it. Luckily we live round the corner. In Covid they did allow people to do it over the phone etc, although I suppose there were Covid tests too so you would have some "proof".

I’m in the US.

12 weeks full pay, then 12 weeks at 2/3 pay. Known as ‘short term disability leave (STD)’. This needs certification from a doctor or relevant healthcare professional (so a licensed therapist can sign you off if it’s mental health related).

We have an ‘unlimited annual leave’ model, so you just take annual leave if you’re sick for up to 5 days. For longer sickness you can switch to STD.

This is a large private company.

@themosquitoslayer UK statutory sick pay is £123pw or 80% if earnings are less than £123. It is paid for 28 weeks.

On the 8th day of sickness a dr's note is required - until then staff self certify.

However, many companies have more generous contractual sick pay. Public sector is often 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. Big corporates are generous but weed out malingerers. Retail is brutal.

Different companies have different rules about notification from a call on the firstnday to every three days to every day prior to submission of a sick note.

Sickness absence is not there to be taken as an annual entitlement, it's there if required.

Just to give you another perspective, I always ask this question in interviews (despite only ever taking off a total of four sick days in my whole working life). I took my current role based on the fact it provided good sickness and maternity packages, despite having 2 other job offers with slightly higher salaries. My current job role provides six months full pay before dropping to SSP, which gave me peace of mind that if ever I was to get cancer or another serious illness I would still be able to provide for my family. I haven’t had to use it yet and hopefully never will! Interestingly I’m often on interview panels and candidates often ask these questions (often in a more subtle way such as asking for standard company policies). It wouldn’t put me off a candidate, I’d assume they’re just considering all aspects of a role before committing. Sensible IMO.

Where I work it depends. If you're off for a general illness then it's SSP, but if it's for something that means you are going to be out for a while then it's 4 weeks full pay and any longer will be up to management. I had 4 days off last year due to a rather nasty stomach bug which got 1 day's SSP for but the 8 weeks I had off following a heart attack and a 4 week phased return I was paid in full.

I checked our policy with HR after being told by my manager that if you're off work, you either use up your holidays or you don't get paid at all. You can self-certify for the first week, but anything after that requires a sick note.

I'm glad that I don't have to go to a doctor on day one of a migraine, as I'm extremely light sensitive, vomit a lot, and can't walk or talk properly, let alone drive!

I found this hard to get used to when I moved to Sweden. I happened to mention that my husband was unwell, my boss sent me home to look after our daughter so my husband didn’t need to.

once in sick leave, it is mandatory to be in at home during the 'National Institute for Social Security' inspection hours which are from 10:00am to 12:00pm and from 5pm to 7pm every day, including weekends and holidays. If they suspect someone is faking it or taking advantage, they come to your house to check up on you.

Outside those hours, the worker is free to go out for necessary errands, medical visits, shopping, or health walks.

I've never heard of the check happening. but luckily I don't know people who would behave like that.

That sounds genuinely insane, what a crazy and useless system. Thank god the UK doesn’t have similar.

DH and I are both entitled to 6 months full pay (less SSP), 6 months half pay (plus SSP), and we’re very lucky. I’ve not heard of a more generous policy.

I think employers should have to publicly publish their sick pay, family leave entitlements, and pension so anyone considering applying for a job with that employer can find the information easily.

This sounds bizarre and not helpful heath wise in any way 🤯

That would surely cause an uproar as it means that those who are more prone to illness get less holiday days than those who don’t? Discrimination?

I would get 6 months full pay but my work/OH are all over us like a rash if we have more than 2 separate sick periods in a rolling year period.

Obviously the 6 months is generally only used by people going through cancer treatment.

Edit to add - Scotland.

In England, we can self certify for 7 days. Then it’s down to the employer’s policy. I work for an Arm Reach Body. We get 6 months full pay, 6 months statutory pay, obviously on condition of medical certification after 7 days.

In Ireland Government is slowly bringing in a whole 10 day of paid sick leave. Its at 5 days right now. But you can claim illness benefit off the State if you are signed off by a doctor.

That was my instinct when my friend first told me about it, but she insisted that in Australia it's completely normal. I've just looked it up and it's the law there that everyone gets 10 days paid sickness/carer's leave each year, with any unused leave rolling over into the next year indefinitely until you change jobs. Technically it seems you can't use it if you are not unwell or caring for someone, but there seems to be ways around that certainly where my friend works.

Supermarket

And also that you go to work when you are sick and give it to everyone else. No thanks.

That’s a very public sector mentality

I think it’s a normal question to ask because in the private sector, some companies will go with discretionary or a really tiny amount. I actually wouldn’t dare ask in an interview. I would ask HR separately by email. If they choose to report back to whoever is interviewing me, obviously that’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to spoil the flow of an interview where you’re basically putting on a show in order to get a job.

There isn’t really a one size fits all answer here.

i’m really baffled by some of the responses, but I think they must all be people working in the public sector.

Basically, if you’re in the private sector - being off sick is stressful. Many of us try everything we can to avoid it because it makes us look bad. I agree that’s awful.

When I had a spinal injury, I was entitled to 6 weeks full pay and then six weeks half pay but the company I was working for were exceptionally good about it.

My only work experience is here in the UK and in the US so I’m not accustomed to anything being relaxed or looking after people who are ill.

My only work experience is here in the UK and in the US so I’m not accustomed to anything being relaxed or looking after people who are ill.

You can get dependents leave in the UK if you have to look after an ailing child or spouse.

Waitrose?

I’m sorry, I am accustomed to looking after people who are ill

I meant, I’m not accustomed to a company trying to look after them. That wasn’t clear at all, sorry for the muddle.

I actually don’t know what private companies offer in terms of dependents leave because by the time I had to do it, I was freelancing, but it is a very separate question to individual sick leave.

It's a legal right, not just private companies - https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

And yes, it's not about sick employees themselves, but it does recognise that employees might have other responsibilities besides themselves. In the past, people might well have taken sick leave (and probably still do,) even if they're not the one who is actually sick.