A level choice insanity

[Blindinglybaffled]

Dc is yr11 and has sen. They are in mainstream school and work really really hard just to keep up. Fantasy gcse results would be maybe a 7, some 6s and 5s. They are doing foundation maths and double science and really want to be a vet - I have taken great pains to kindly explain that vet med is more difficult to get into than standard medicine and they need to adjust their plans (vet nursing maybe?). Today a senior science teacher (who actually teaches them!) has said they could totally do A level chemistry & biology and being a vet is achievable. To my knowledge it is totally not!! I’m not wrong am I?! Dc is really upset saying that I’m trying to squash their dreams and obv think they’re stupid. They’re not stupid at all but have limitations and I think at 15/16 we need to be realistic. FFS - what was the teacher thinking?!

Vet Med schools have increased places a bit but it is not only results that they look for. They want a wide range of work experience in different settings, farms , small animal vets, equine and large animal vets. If you get to interview then that carries a lot of weight as you have to be able to deal with people well sometimes in traumatic circumstances. My DD had 8A* and 3 As at GCSE predicted As in A level and got a couple of interviews then rejected. She had worked in a wildlife park at weekends for two years, work experience lambing, experience working on a cattle farm, 3 different vets, one equine. She got her 4 A levels grade A and took a gap year and re- applied after working on a game reserve in S.Africa. She failed at interview again. Maybe your son is good at talking the talk but you definitely need top grades to stand any chance. It sounds like animal management/ behaviour might suit him better.

I don't think I've ever said to my kids they won't be able to do something! Can't you just say "yes dear that sounds fabulous, you could go for vetinary or animal management or lots of different courses and careers related to animals"
Then gradually merge to 'brilliant DS wants to work with animals'
And then just see what happens?
Encourage him to get relevant work experience

My dog's physio wanted to be a vet but didn't get the grades, so now she's a dog physio. Which seems to involve sitting on the floor stroking lots of dogs. I don't think she has any regrets.

Honestly, I doubt he'll thank you for the reality check, and when he fails he might resent you for not supporting him. So maybe just let him crack on and he'll find his own way to his perfect career. There's probably truth in the saying 'shoot for the moon and if you miss, you'll still be among the stars'; he can aim for vet, but possibly he'll have to settle for a career happily sitting on the floor stroking lots of dogs. Which is possibly not the worst way to spend a life!

I'm not sure if high school teachers have any knowledge on future careers. At parents evening with my DD the teacher asked her if she will study maths after school. He'd just told me she was doing the foundation paper and predicted a 5. A minimum of a 7 is needed in my area to do Maths A-Level.

One of my best friends is a vet. It is insanely stressful. There is a very high suicide rate among vets.

DC2 was offered a place on a vet med course with an extra foundation year in Preston with 3 Bs. They turned it down.

Your poor DD. I hope whatever she’s doing now she is content

There are lots of career options that can involve working with animals without being an actual vet.
As PP have said, encourage studying hard in subjects that will be relevant eg biology and encourage them to look at entry requirements for courses so they can consider the a level choices. Helping them research is encouragement but also helps reality checks. Also get them to consider a wide range of related courses.

In this situation, apply for the 16-19 places strategically. You can apply and provisionally accept as many as you want.

So not only A levels, but as others have said, Agricultural college to do Extended BTEC Diploma or T-level in Animal Management. You can't go on to be a vet from that but can do vet nursing or other animal related.

Personally I suspect foundation tier maths will scupper things for those A levels at some places.

One of my best friends at school - a long time ago now! - always wanted to be a vet, talked about it with lots of teachers, had lots of encouragement and support.

During our A levels (where obviously she’d chosen the subjects needed for veterinary science) our head of sixth form had to break it to her that she was obviously not going to get the needed grades.

She was devastated, completely spiralled about the fact that she’d been (she felt) lied to and misled for so long, fixed on the idea that the teachers had secretly been laughing at her, and dropped out of a levels.

She then got some kind of random office junior job, when I last heard from her she was in her mid 20s and going back to college to do some kind of animal care course. Because she’d finally realised that she wanted to work with animals, and being a vet wasn’t the only way to do that!

I’ve always kept that in mind when talking about careers with my kids and niblings. If they say they want to be a lawyer, I say great! What do you think you’d enjoy about that? And then chat about all the different roles in the legal field and outside it that might use those skills. One wanted to be a doctor until we really talked about it and she realised actually all the elements that appealed to her would be possible as a nurse instead.

It’s easy as a young kid to fixate on the obvious job within a particular field (postman pat delivers packages to the vet, not the veterinary assistant, etc you only really hear about the obvious jobs). But it’s IMO down to parents and teachers to be supportive but also informative.

I also have SEN kids: in your shoes right now that the teacher has messed this up, I’d switch to just supportive. Oh how great the teacher thinks this is realistic, lovely. I know you’re working hard, what would be helpful for your revision? How can I help?

And then after sitting the mocks but before results a bit of chat about other options just as a backup, and then see what happens.

It's very much not these days (neither is vet med) - there are unis who make AAA offers and I have known students accepted with AAB on results day.

The UCAT is a bigger hurdle for medicine, but there are more med schools than vet schools, so it's easier to find somewhere to give to accept you if you apply strategically.

Double science isn't a barrier to doing science A levels or vet school. She would probably need 6s but it sounds like that is in the realms of possibility.

Foundation maths is a barrier, but is that currently set in stone? Does the teacher know she is definitely on foundation maths?

Does the teacher know of places that would accept her onto science a levels with a 5 in maths? Around here there are FE colleges that would accept her.

The chances of her getting As at a level with those entry grades are low, but it's theoretically possible and there are gateway options for vet med which require an extra year at uni but would need about BBC. The teacher might know your daughter is likely to be eligible for this.

As a science teacher myself, if a student on track for 3s and 4s was asking me about this, I'd be able to explain why it's unlikely. But with a student in your daughter's position it is within the realms of possibility if she works extremely hard and perhaps was able to do higher maths. So I couldn't stand there and say that it's not possible. Personally I would probably talk through entry requirements and explain she'd have to work extremely hard to get the grades needed at a level.

But I couldn't say she couldn't do science a levels because I know students have been accepted to local colleges with 6-6 in science and a 6 and a 5 in English and maths.

I think you are wrong to say it's totally unachievable for your daughter - it may be really hard, but I do think there are routes that may be available to your daughter and if a student in her position asked me about it, I would tell them about the routes available and encourage them to work hard and aim high.

Why not get in touch with the teacher and ask if they genuinely do think your daughter could cope with science a levels and do they know somewhere that would accept her with a 5 in maths?

I think there is a difference between "theoretically possible" and "realistically extremely unlikely".

If your sixth form allows students take A Level science with 5s in GCSE maths (noted in particular as many won't), then it's true he can go on and do A Level sciences, and it's also true that if he does well and meets other entry criteria, he could get a place in vet med.
However, given where he is now, none of this is going to be easy and may be virtually impossible given DS's SEN.

Some children rise to the challenge of achieving something difficult if they really want the end result. So better to encourage them than tell them they can't do it.
it sounds like this comment was made in a public space (if DS's friend heard it) so the teacher couldn't give DS tailored advice.