I can have screen time and tidy or none and mess. It's worth it right?

[Babyboomtastic]

I've come to the conclusion I can allow lots of screen time and live in a tidy house, or, I can live in a tip (in some rooms anyway), and the kids have no screen time.

About 3 weeks ago I told the kids there was no more screen time until they tied their bedrooms and the playroom. They shrugged and said okay.

Since then they haven't asked once for screens. They haven't done the tidying and those rooms or even this year because they're continually in their playing.

But they ARE playing. They are seven and nine, a many of the older ones contemporaries don't play anymore, which is a bit sad.

I'd like to not have to dance to get across playroom, but I like that there's no arguments about one more episode, the kids seem a little calmer, and they played Sylvanian families for like three hours straight the other day.

Oh for a tidy house, but I think it's worth it right now.

I think that's a false choice, because you can lead the tidying Pied Piper-style. They are too young to do it without some guidance, so make it a 10 minute daily team effort, as they would in school.

But if you do want to choose, then definitely the research would say superficial toy mess is a lot healthier and educationally beneficial than screen time.

Make tidying an activity- I didn’t used to let them get too many activities out at once (but obviously sometimes it can get chaotic).

Mine are younger but I find I can have a tidy-ish house if I can lure them out into the garden for a bit.

Admittedly the garden is covered in outdoor toys now but I find that less irritating (and we have a big storage bench they can all be chucked into).

I have tried getting them tidying for their whole lives. They've been expected to help tidy their toys away since toddlerhood. We've done tidying up music (we have a whole playlist in Spotify), we've turned it into more games than I can remember. We've done it where they've had to tidy up 2 or 3 times a day at set times. We've tried to instill into them for 5y+ that you put the toy away before you get out the next. I've used reward charts, I've threatened, got grumpy. I've helped them and we've done it as a family. We've repeatedly banned playdates whilst it's a mess and rewarded them with playdates when tidied.

I am exhausted by the number of ways I've tried to get them to tidy up. Sometimes it works for that time. Sometimes it works for a couple of weeks.

But these are kids that hate tidying more than they love their favourite show or game on their tablet. They hate tidying more than they love spending time with their friends.

So for now I give up. There is harmony. There is playing. It's a nicer atmosphere and a horrible physical environment.

9 certainly is not too young to tidy without guidance. For most things neither is 7. They playroom even has labels on every tray to make it easier.

Pied piper style usually results in one of them running off shouting and a 10 minutes job taking 4 hours.

Just because it is hard doesn't mean you should stop telling them to tidy up. Mine did it daily from being toddlers, with help when they were very little but they know where things went, like you, a playroom with labels. If they asked me where it went I would say where do you think it goes?

To me tidying is the same as any other daily activity, brushing teeth, wiping bottoms, it is just part of being in the house and there is no way your children are walking around with a shitty arse crack. Mine had to put their coats away, their shoes in the correct place and I never let up if they got distracted. They are now adults, both boys and their rooms are tidy, their laundry is washed by them because I refused to have them think that tidying is an option.

I think maybe yours just have way too many toys so reduce it by removing entire trays out of their reach. That way they can only get out a certain amount of stuff.

I personally think it shows disrespect for the toys/games that you have paid for and that have been gifted to them if they leave them on the floor. One of them running off wouldn't mean anything in this house because everything would pause until they came back, the job is still there to be done, leaving doesn't do anything.

Do they have too much stuff? Maybe a big clear out would help. Charity shop/selling/storing away for toy rotation.

Do you not think I've tried that 😂.

What do you want me to do - beat them?
Short of that I've tried it all. Repeatedly. Consistently. Since 9 months old.

I've tried banning them from their playrooms, and they just make believe without toys and still don't tidy .

They are now literally 3 weeks into a punishment here, and they don't give a damn.

I did build it into our lives as an intrinsic part of our routine. Some kids are just this stubborn.

I am still reminding them of the need to tidy. I had one in tears last night due to a friendship issue. I suggested we invite the friend over for more playdates but she needs to tidy her room first.

Youngest starts playing in the lounge. I tell her to go and play in the playroom, and if it's to messy to play in, that's her own fault.

They continually ask where things are. I tell them I'm not going to help them look because it's their fault everything is in a mess.

They still don't tidy.
Oh they like tidying the lounge and the kitchen. Off their own batt they've started loading and unloading the dishwasher first thing. Which is lovely, but they will not touch 'their' rooms.

At some stage I'll lose my cool and demand that they today, and we'll have the weekend of hell where they make the process so miserable that I wish I hadn't bothered. And 2 weeks later we'll be back here again.

But for now I'm going to enjoy the peace and the playing and the increased craft.

I think that’s a good shout personally. Our little one is only 2 but if we allow tv time he starts asking for it more regularly. Whereas if we have say no tv after a few days he stops asking and he plays a lot better. I don’t think children really need tv unless they’re sick or very upset and need a little distraction for 10 mins.

I think it's great that they're playing and not bothered about screen time. If you want to improve the state of the room too I would suggest breaking it down so they just do a couple of minutes a day. Like pick up 20 things and put them away. Or find all the dressing up clothes and put them in a basket. Mine seemed to quite like a star chart at that age or small rewards like 20p per job. But one of them found the idea of tidying a whole room without any guidance overwhelming (later diagnosed with ADHD) so we used to break it down into smaller tasks and also help her if it was really bad.

I am just more hardcore than you. I was raised in a very strict household that everything had to be put away. The alternative was you sat at the dining table and you would only be able to leave the chair to tidy. Some mess was left for you to tidy so you couldn't just sit at the table and waste time. That rarely happened but the threat was there.

Mine had a no toys in the bedroom policy, bedrooms were for reading books and sleeping. They had a massive playroom and enough storage for everything to be away.

It is clear that your children have a messy playroom and you are still allowing them to do craft or play in the lounge. There should be no playing at all, zip, until the playroom is tidy. "we'll have the weekend of hell where they make the process so miserable that I wish I hadn't bothered" and that is why they do it, because they know you will crack. Mine had no choice but to tidy daily, there was no leaving it until the weekend.

I am serious when I say Tom Petty's I Won't Back Down needs to be your new ear worm. I genuinely think that a lot of parents do not want to fight after working the day and then dealing with children and so things slide. We ourselves have far too much to entertain us so we would rather be doing that than dealing with the children pissing us off. But as I said I bet they don't have shit in their arse cracks because that one was drilled into them and I bet they go to school in their uniform. So they know the rules you have and they will definitely have to tidy up any mess in the classroom that they made.

I never said it was easy, but then I am a very determined person.

We've done all those things. With constant effort (equivalent to me just doing it myself frankly), they can keep it up for a few days, maybe a week or two.

I offered my eldest 20p to go to bed a couple of years ago (so she was 7). I'd got that fed up. I said she could put it towards sweets at the shop. She was shocked, said that she'd save it because of the cost of living crisis rather than spend it, but no she didn't want the money.

I suppose it serves me right as a stubborn person married to a lovely but stubborn man that we have kids which make mules look compliant. We are dealing with small and more unreasonable versions of ourselves and only have ourselves to blame.

It is clear that your children have a messy playroom and you are still allowing them to do craft or play in the lounge. There should be no playing at all, zip, until the playroom is tidy. "we'll have the weekend of hell where they make the process so miserable that I wish I hadn't bothered" and that is why they do it, because they know you will crack. Mine had no choice but to tidy daily, there was no leaving it until the weekend.

You are mistaken. You are so convinced in your belief that all children are malleable, that you cannot see there are outliers.

They don't play in the lounge (if they do, they get moved out). They don't do craft in the lounge. I also can't stop them playing because even if I dropped them playing with toys, they'd play with a potato, their socks or pretend their fingers are people.

They are supposed to tidy daily. For a few weeks (months ago) they were required to tidy their rooms in the morning, and only once they were back tidy were they allowed to watch an episode of something. I'd bring that back if I could, but I can't.

They aren't unhelpful kids. They help cook, they help tidy the lounge. They are well behaved, studious but they would sell eachother before they'd tidy up their stuff.

You say

The alternative was you sat at the dining table and you would only be able to leave the chair to tidy. Some mess was left for you to tidy so you couldn't just sit at the table and waste time. That rarely happened but the threat was there.

And if they just said no would you drag them back physically? Beat them into submission? Because there are some kids which punishments simply so not work with, and the only way to actually enforce a rule like you suggest would be highly abusive if you've got kids that don't cooperate.

This sounds great. I wish I’d thought of it!

But as I said I bet they don't have shit in their arse cracks because that one was drilled into them

Maybe not the best thing to joke about. One of my children has a physical disability, with continence issues being part of that. The 'shit in their cracks' is something I deal with multiple times a day.

It's not a joking matter.

This makes no sense - if it isn't too young to tidy alone, why aren't your kids just getting on with it?

Tbh I dont think having a messy playroom is a big deal. Its a playroom, is that not the point?

If they are happy, playing proper games and its staying contained to the playroom leave them to it

If you get a decent answer please tell me.

In reality, they are beautiful but stubborn contrary creatures.

They are denying themselves playdates, their favourite shows, their favourite games. They'd rather go without those for weeks or months rather than tidy up 'their' stuff.

Then they will blitz the lounge and the kitchen without me asking.

Make them make sense 😂

Mine are almost 3 and 5 and nothing makes me happier than the moments where they play together nicely. No TV, beautiful fun.

To be honest I’d live in the mess or tidy up for them to have more of that and less inane shit on the tv.

I hate tidying up, so there's no hope for my kids. Same as you, playdates are contingent on the house not requiring social services intervention. Still doesn't work.

I agree with you btw except for adults it is the other way round, we watch tv instead of stacking the dishwasher 😅

DD1 tidied up on Saturday because I told her I'd take her shopping on Sunday - she's 13 though so you have a few years before that works.

My current tactic is to say when we’re on our way home from somewhere that we’re going to come in, set a timer and everyone has to just get cracking. No tactical avoidance poos. No sitting down. No screens. Just everyone go and tidy up their own spaces and put their own things where they belong. All 4 of us, 15 minutes on a Sunday afternoon usually so I can get it cleaned without tidying on the Monday!

And if they literally scream, run away and refuse. What then?

You explain why it's necessary right? And they still refuse.

So you threaten to take away some privilege perhaps? And they still refuse.

So you go through with your threat. And they still refuse.

Tbh dishwasher currently needs to be stacked and I'm also watching TV 😂

I also am prone to frequently banning screens and then complaining about the mess. Like you I feel it's a positive sort of mess.

We dont have a playroom so it's all in the open plan downstairs living sort of space (which is not huge), so I am on hand all the time to say Stop! Before you get that out, let's put this away! I also clear the decks every evening myself so each morning is a fresh start.

My mum never did any housework (she was unwell for a long time) and the tidying was left to us therefore never done. I remember that horrible overwhelming feeling when it's all such a mess that you dont know where to start. My aim is to teach how to tidy and model it. But oh! the grumbling. It's definitely hard work!

Well we’re not really a screaming, shouting kind of family.

if I get a bit of attitude then I’ll just ask if they think it’s fair for me to take an hour to do it on my own to make my point!

sometimes the smaller one will need a bit of direction. I’ll gather everything and use the children as runners to put it in the right room.

it is a lifetime of habits though isn’t it? Yes, if they speak to me in a way I deem unacceptable, they get told off.

there is a standard in the house, not a particularly high one, but they’ll get told off and pulled up if:

stuff left on floors and sides
beds not made
washing not in the basket
clean washing not put away
plates in the dishwasher
rubbish in the bin
shoes in their home

when that sort of thing isn’t done, I’m grumpy. But it’s just a basic standard and they need to contribute to the house they live in. I don’t accept no. But it never gets that bad, little and often and therefore not overwhelming