Wrongly accused of watching BBC iPlayer without a licence

[Cattenberg]

I have never had a TV (or an iPlayer account) at my current address, so since moving here I haven’t had a TV licence.

Today, I got a letter from TV Licensing claiming that someone at my address has watched BBC iPlayer on several occasions in the last few weeks without a licence. I know I haven’t and the only other resident (my eight-year-old) swears she hasn’t and I believe her. In order to watch something on iPlayer, don’t you have to log in first?

The letter says I have to buy a licence and gives me a link to the TV licensing website, but whichever option I select to try to contact them, I am either blocked from sending a message because I don’t have a current TV licence number, or I’m re-directed to the page for buying a new licence. Hmm…

I suppose I’ll have to write a letter to them, but has anyone else experienced this? I do NOT want to watch TV or buy a licence. I’d prefer it if they blocked my property from receiving all BBC services, so I never have to worry about this again.

I’m also wondering if someone could have accessed my Wi-fi, perhaps the next-door neighbours (one set aren’t very nice) or the workmen who occasionally park on the street outside my house as they’re renovating a nearby property.

I didn't even know it was possible to watch without signing in

It isn't, normally. The site or the app on a smart TV will prompt you to sign in before it will show anything, but all this requires is a throw-away email address. BBC can technically see which IP's are logging on, and ISP's are readily identifiable from IP's, but without contacting your ISP and the ISP illegally handing the BBC the information, they have absolutely no way to tell which physical postal address that IP has been issued to, or whether the individual using it might be doing so while in possession of a valid TV Licence in any case.

Letters like the one OP has received are speculative, and nothing more than a scare tactic. Some are prompted by people using an email address to declare they do not need a TV Licence then using the same email to log into iPlayer, but even then there is no way the BBC can contend something illegal is going on on the basis of those facts alone, because email addresses can be hijacked and re-issued, and you are not breaking the law by simply logging into iPlayer in any case, because you could be watching S4C content and that does not require a Licence.

That’s reassuring to know. 🙂

So much bullshit in that letter 😂

"Someone has used BBC iPlayer on a number of ocassions"

Aye, well good luck launching a legal process against a random "someone" or even getting a Magistrate to entertain issuing a warrant against "someone".

"You need a TV Licence to be covered for everything on BBC iPlayer"

Technically correct, assuming you want to watch the full gamut, but even the BBC skirt around the grey area of S4C content not being subject to the Licence, so they can't prosecute anyone off the back of watching iPlayer because of it.

But people apparently did get prosecuted somehow and their cases appeared in the Court News section of our local paper. Two of my neighbours got caught in the 90s/early 2000s, pleaded guilty and were fined.

Just ignore it. They can’t prove it!

Well they shouldn’t have pleaded guilty then.

So they were guilty
or they weren’t?

surely that is a touch relevant?

Yes, back in the day people were naive and didn't realise the BBC have no right of access to your property without a warrant, so they used to let enforcement officers in, and either get caught red-handed watching TV without a Licence, or admit to it when challenged. This is still how the few people who are still prosecuted these days are caught.

Go look at the figures released under FOI. IIRC the last jailing for non-payment of fine (non payment of licence is not a jailable offence) was back in 2018 or something. Even in the event they actually catch someone in the act, first recourse is to offer the chance to buy a Licence, because the BBC wants the money and the enforcement officer gets a percentage. To actually be prosecuted you have to invite them in, get caught/admit, and also refuse to purchase, then if you want to be an arse about it you can force a situation whereby they'd have to apply for a warrant to enter, which costs, and will only be issued if they can satisfy a Magistrate or Sheriff with significant evidence of law-breaking.

It's virtually impossible for the BBC to catch non-payers unless the non-payer dobs themselves in. Even if they turn up at your door, you simply bid them good day and close the door on them. They are powerless.

Just to note, if you (general you) use an email address to say an elderly relative who doesn’t use the internet doesn’t need a licence then you use the same email to log in to iplayer from a completely different address, your elderly relative will get increasingly threatening letters about them having ‘proof’ he/she is lying about not watching.

I’m learning a lot from this thread.

I don’t know if my neighbours (two different households) were guilty as I never talked about it with them. I doubt they would have appreciated me telling them that I saw their cases in the local paper! I assumed they were as they pleaded Guilty in court.

I remember feeling sorry for one of them as she got prosecuted and her husband (who lived with her) didn’t. But her name would have been on more documents as she seemed to do all the life admin for the household. It’s a thankless job sometimes.

Her teenage daughter will have created an iPlayer account using their address, which is how they will have known what was being watched and when!

If there is no iPlayer account registered with your address, they don't have any magical mystical ways to determine if iPlayer is being watched inside your house.

We didn't watch any live TV/iPlayer stuff and didn't have a licence for around six months. When we decided we would start again (DS got interested in sport so wants to watch football) and applied for the licence, they backdated it automatically six months because they said they didn't believe we hadn't been watching over that time!

How crazy is that? The assumption that you'd basically been lying and stealing for six months. 😂Anyway, DH called them and said no, don't backdate it, we haven't been watching, and it had to go to a manager because the system doesn't allow for it apparently. Bit cheeky!

So if you don’t know whether guilty or not… the fact they were prosecuted isn’t really relevant to this situation.

I would assume they very much were guilty

I did a request asking for the evidence. They keep a huge amount of info if you use the ‘sounds’ app, the website and also iPlayer signed in.
As it happens I was viewing something in a property with a licence. I’ve now deleted everything BBC, but be aware of BBC stuff on YouTube - you need a licence for that, there’s small print.

Could be someone using your address with their email to log into Iplayer.

I pleaded guilty once to a crime I have no memory of committing with very little evidence that it was I who committed it. Because the court system is frightening and threatening and you’re told that if you plead not guilty and get found guilty then you will face a more severe punishment.

Lots of people plead guilty to avoid this unknown worse outcome as they find they’d rather accept the known, lesser sentence than deal with X more months not knowing what the outcome will be.

OP, just ignore them. I don't watch anything live but get these letters regularly, they go in cycles from relatively polite to more and more threatening, then cycle back again to relatively polite. I no longer bother to read them, they just go straight in the bin. Ironically, I wouldn't mind watching live programmes, and would buy a licence to do so, but I'm not going to start giving money to the BBC while they behave like bullying arseholes. I have no idea why they think either that their behaviour is in any way acceptable, or why it doesn't occur to them that treating people like this just pisses them off and is counterproductive (not to mention must cost a lot of money!)

And before someone tells me to fill out the form saying I don't need one, I don't give out my personal data to companies unnecessarily, and I certainly don't choose to share my personal data with companies that behave like they are a dodgy debt collection company. If they want to waste licence payer money on sending endless pointless letters that's their problem.

Only if it’s live still.

BBC programs are on Netflix not live as they sell them as well don’t need a licence for that either.

@Cattenberg now I’ve seen your letter
No, I’ve never had one that looks like that. But as I say, I deleted the login and I live alone so it can’t be anyone else. Is there a chance your DC clicked on a BBC iPlayer programme and it just automatically logged you in?

Did you actually delete your login?

I had this, it turned out I was signed into the BBC website from when I last had a licence still, not iPlayer, their news website.

Anyway, when I asked for further information, it seemed that breaking news items on their website with news clips counted as live TV. I'd literally just been reading the news, but because some parliamentary stuff had live coverage at the top of the page above the story, it was that. I argued with them and they ended it there. I made sure I was signed out of the BBC and have never had the issue again. It only auto plays the live bit if you're already signed in.

Any chance you've had the same issue? Your letter looks like that one, not the more generic ones I get occasionally.

One of my sons had an inspector or whatever they are, call at his address. They were politely requested to leave.. ;-)

I think it was a lot easier to catch you in the 70s though because why else would you have a telly but to watch it. but that changed when videos came out in the 80s and you could have a TV for just watching videos and maybe some games were played on the TV then.

I’ve had this letter. I received it because when I met my Dh I didn’t have a license but he did for his home. When I was at his house I set up BBC iplayer but used my email address. This email address was the one I had used for correspondence when I completed the declaration saying I didn’t need a licence so they assumed I was watching it at my home. I just emailed them and said I was at my partner’s home and he has one and as far as I was aware the license covers the property not the person. The problem was they knew my email had been used but they can’t tell your location, I never had any more letters from them after that. If I had my way I wouldn’t pay the tv licence full stop because we literally never watch BBC, unfortunately my Dh is more law abiding than me and insists on having one.

There is some really weird rule, something about you can watch it on your iPad for example round a licensed house as long as it's not plugged in, I think that's right, or something like that.

I might have watched short news clips on the website. I don’t know how I could be signed in, though.