Desperate for advice- 4.5 year old wakes every night

[SandwichesAndGingerBeer]

I’m considering paying for a sleep specialist, our whole family is so sleep deprived.

Here’s the facts:

• 4.5 year old
• We have had patches of good sleep, but consistently over past few years he wakes nightly and sometimes it’s got so bad we’ve given up and co slept for periods.
• We’re grateful if we get a couple of nights where he sleeps through in a week. We’ve had some patches where we’ve got 3-4 nights, but I can’t remember the last time that happened.
• A good night is getting up once and him settling quickly, a bad one is being up for hours and unfortunately this isn’t uncommon.
• He’s also an early waker.
• Earlier this year it was brutal and we were up with him for hours at a time multiple nights a week.
• When he co sleeps with one of us he mostly sleeps really well right through the night and doesn’t wake as early, which suggests he does need the sleep.
• We’ve recently tried another effort with concerted sleep training and boundaries using a rewards system and after improvement in the first week it’s now bad again. We’re at the end of week 3 of consistent effort. I put him back in bed 15x this morning between 5 & 6am and that was after my partner had been up overnight.
• He has a gro clock and understands it, just ignores it.
• A new thing this year is saying he’s scared and referencing something he’s watched - we’ve adjusted his tv viewing as a result.
• He also doesn’t like to be alone in the day and will follow us from room to room rather than be by himself.
• He’s at pre school full time and aside from being clingy on drop off is very well adjusted there so this isn’t a child that spends 24/7 with me
• He’s totally unmotivated by reward systems - generally, not just in relation to sleep.

I’m feeling really broken and despairing this morning. It’s impacting my work, diet and exercise. It can’t be good for him either. My partner, bless him, does more than his share of wakeups because I’m perimenopausal and struggling with sleep and energy anyway.

He’s starting school soon and we have our wedding coming up in 6 weeks - we’ll have family staying and we’re going to have to bring him into our room anyway then, and then we’re off on honeymoon without him.

I’ve got to the point now where I’m considering throwing in the towel and co sleeping until October half term when we’re back from honeymoon and have some normality back. And also just helping us survive this busy period by doing the thing that gets us sleep.

I’m also considering paying for a paediatric sleep consultant.

Would appreciate hearing from those of you with similar experiences. I need tips, experience of using consultants and generally just some hope that it will get better- soon!

You don't need to sleep alone with your partner every night to have space together as a couple. Co-sleeping at this age is still very very much the norm in pretty much the entire rest of the world.

I would not be going without sleep for weeks or months on end just because I wanted to share a bed with my partner. What kind of quality time are you even getting with an exhausted child who is up and down constantly, anyway?

I feel your pain - 6yo who is up multiple times here. Also takes forever to go to sleep and will not be alone ever! I think the thing I ended up realising is that you just have to accept it because the alternative is a constant negotiation / conflict and it's no good for anyone. People can tell you all the rules they like about sleep training this and consequences that, but until you have a child like this, you can't quite get it. I have another one who was very tricky with sleep but nothing like this.

We have got into a bit of a routine where he comes into us every night now and we have come to accept it (as much as we don't want to) I accept it more than my husband who struggles with it. He is extrememely tall and we have a standard double so it's a squeeze. He sometimes leave and sometimes stays, we're often getting kicked in the face but it's better than the alternative. This is far better than the years of screaming and trying to keep him in his room - back and forth all over the house etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, it's not a lovely little snooze in our bed, he still wakes up, but at least we're not up and down all night.

This isn't how I'd choose it to be, but it's what we need to do right now to stay sane, having survived years of very severe sleep deprivation in the earlier years (with him and his sibling) this feels so much better. I hope you find a way through it.

Agree with this. DH and I have a happy successful marriage because we make time to kiss and cuddle during the day, and because we make time for long intimate conversations. Usually while out walking the dog, away from DD's ears!

Not sharing a bed every night, just the two of us, hasn't been a problem at all.

In fact we both sleep better in separate rooms! If we're going to have, ahem, 'special time' together then I visit his bed and bugger off to my own afterwards. I'm like a Victorian earl, visiting his wife's bedroom and then sleeping in his dressing room for undisturbed kip. 🤣

OP - Sorry you're going through this...

But,

you haven't mentioned his sleep schedule.

What time does he wake?
Does he nap?
What time Does he go to bed?

Are you trying to get him in bed at 7pm so you can have alone time. He may only need 10 hrs sleep and be lower sleep needs.

Does he watch a lot of TV?
Does he eat a lot of sugar?

Also... just CO SLEEP!!!!

How is being shattered good for an intimate marriage lol.

We had three kids and only one needed to co sleep with us. It worked well. It's not "training" that makes the difference. Sleeping near in the same room as an adult is what some children just need to feel safe
We don't ask adults to sleep alone when they are partners
Why should a young child feel safe alone in a bed in the dark when they wake from a sleep cycle

Just co-sleep. We do/did for a long time with DS7 and now DD3. It’s only in the last 6 months that DS has slept through in his own room.

We’re very much in the camp of any sleep is good sleep. We play musical beds. Some nights DD can be in with DP, or in with me, or us both. Some nights DS can be in with me, or his dad. It really doesn’t matter so long as we all get some sleep.

I would say that recent night temperatures have disturbed most people’s sleep. One bad night repeats I find.
Maybe it is this worsening the situation?

Thank you everyone who gave thoughtful advice.

Despite the impression I seem to have created, I’m not anti co-sleeping. We have used it multiple times, but it’s just never been something we viewed as a long-term arrangement for us as a family.

And believe me it’s not about sex! It’s more about having one space in the house that’s ours.

Anyway, things change and it’s definitely a serious option now, but we will give the mattress a go first.

Perhaps I’m overtired (definitely) and over-sensitive, but a few of the comments have read a bit “why are you being selfish and making your child sleep alone?” Well firstly, that’s the accepted way and sometimes it takes a while to realise that what is accepted just doesn’t work for your child or family, and secondly we’re just doing the best we can like everyone else is - I came here for help not disapproval 🙏

Anyway we have a new plan so will just see how it goes and not force it if it’s not working.

What’s the schedule? When do you put him to bed, when does he go to sleep and when does he wake up in the morning?

He’s in bed for stories 7-7.15 (after a bath), lights out 7.30-7.45, usually asleep very rapidly. He wakes anytime from 5-6.30am, it’s very inconsistent.

And is this the same if he is awake for hours in the middle of the night? Still up for between 5am and 6:30am? Is he usually awake for hours in the night or does he usually wake up and go back to sleep pretty quickly if with someone?

@HotWheel5 again, so inconsistent.

• some nights he wakes and goes back to sleep with a quick settle
• other nights it’s like he’s wired and it takes ages even if we sit with him
• mostly he still wakes early even if he’s been up in the night, but then often if he gets into bed with us and given time to settle he will fall back asleep again
• it’s not uncommon for him to fall asleep in the middle of the day on the weekend and tonight he fell asleep on the sofa at 6pm so I don’t think he’s staying awake because he doesn’t need the sleep
• pushing bedtime earlier or later seems to make little difference to sleep, but if we go later he crashes emotionally

I agree with the posters who've asked his schedule. The most obvious reason for the wakes and what a sleep consultant would want to know are what time he wakes up, falls asleep, any naps etc. If you track it all for a little while you might be able to see exactly what the problem is. If he's falling asleep at 6pm from exhaustion that will impact on the night as his sleep pressure will be lower after a little nap. If he's wired he's probably overtired as a stress hormone is released making them seem very awake even though they're exhausted.

If co-sleeping isn't your thing then check all the other options out first. A few small tweaks could get him sleeping through in his own bed. My almost 4 year old has never slept in my bed and sleeps through, it can be done.

I’d let him co-sleep for a bit so you can get some sleep and revisit when you’re not sleep deprived. It’s really brutal when you have disturbed sleep night after night. I remember it well, DS was a terrible sleeper for a long time. Is he in a toddler or full sized bed? If still in a toddler bed, try switching to full-size single. That was a big difference for us.

This won’t last for ever. But tbh, I totally miss those snuggles.

We tried to do the Dr Sears style attachment parenting. I love his thoughts on sleeping: the best sleeping arrangement is where everyone in the family gets enough sleep. Could you let him sleep in your room with your both? Maybe his wee mattress beside the beside? He will be secure and you can all get sleep and cuts out all the sadness. Co-sleeping is often what they crave. He won't be doing it when he is 16!

Has some well-meaning but foolish person told him that when you die it is like going to sleep but you never wake up again?

Early waking? Just be dull and whisper and say it's not morning time yet. No other chat. Blackout blinds and a gro clock that changes colour when it's time to get up or sounds a wee alarm can help.

He’s 4.5! He needs you. So co-sleep with him. Why make everything harder for everyone by resisting it?

my 8 year old would still come in with me given half the chance 🤣. I let him every now and again. But he accepts that this is few and far between now.

seriiusly op, I’m sorry it’s tough. Lots of us have been there and are totally there in solidarity. But please, for your own sake, and your sons, accept that you’ll be co sleeping for a while longer

Re-posting his schedule for those who asked again. He’s been in a full-size bed since 18 months. That’s a whole other sleep story as at about 1 year we couldn’t get him to sleep in a cot anymore and so he ended up on a mattress on the floor like a squatter for a while.

Update: The mattress last night worked a treat! 🙌🏻🙌🏻

We had bought him a portable night light and we did a practice run before bedtime of him getting out of bed and carrying his pillow and nightlight to our room and getting into his sleeping bag on the mattress by himself.

I woke about 5am to go to the loo and he was sleeping peacefully at the foot of the bed. He slept until just after 6 then got into bed with us for cuddles - he was very proud he hadn’t woken us. He says he’s happy with the arrangement so we’ll keep a watching brief 🤞🏻

@ThatMintMember just to say we don’t let him actually nap properly at 6pm. He was only asleep for a couple of minutes while we decided whether to wake him for dinner or straight up to bed.

Edited as just seen the update - hope the good sleep continues!

This.

My DS who is now a strapping teenager decided he wanted to co-sleep at the age of 9 and did so for a year. I never stopped him and one day he just decided he wanted to be in his own room. A few people said it was odd but I didn’t really care. I knew he wouldn’t still be co-sleeping as a teenager and he isn’t!

Watching as our 3.5 year old is in thus phase. I am quite reassured to read it is a phase though!

Glad you found something that worked well last night OP, he sounds like an absolute sweetheart - being so proud that he didn’t wake you 🥹 he just needs you nearby in the night time for now, he won’t always. Good luck and hope this solution works for a while