Advice needed on carrying out the wishes of a will.

[Tolkienista]

My mother died on June 30th, she'd been on "end of life" care since February, so we had a lot of time to get her affairs in order.
Her will is straightforward, dividing her money between her four children (including myself.)
Her house sale completed in March...... £223k
All her accounts (except her ISA) were joint accounts with me.
The proceeds of the house sale is in a savings account in my name, all done at the bank her house sale went into.
The reason it's in my.name only is because my mother wasn't present when account was opened, but it's directly traced back to the sale of her house.
So the total value of house sale + savings =£270k to be divided between the four of us.

My question. Can we proceed with dividing her assets between the four of us with the help of the bank without involving a solicitor?
The executor of her will is now in her 80s house bound and in no way capable of performing her role.

There are no outstanding debts to be paid and probate isn't needed either, all confirmed by the bank.
All above was checked out well in advance over preceding months to her death.

Really sorry to hear this, it sounds like you have been managing an awful lot. I would hope the sibling who is in a hurry for the money will either step up and offer to sort it out or give you some recovery time first. Sending 💕

She definitely didn't make any significant gifts in the last seven years.
That is a fact..
I hadn't specifically thought of all the organisations you've mentioned, they've all been notified of her death, but I guess a month isn't long enough to gauge if we'll have to pay money back. So that's something else to factor in.

We've had a family WhatsApp discussion in the last hour and agreed to step back for a couple of weeks.
It's just all too soon after the funeral last week & there such a lot to consider and as someone pointed out , I've still got to see what pension money needs paying back if any have been overpaid.

Yes probably.
Too tired to even think of it at the moment, it's just been one thing after another.
Her house sale was complicated too.

Oh gosh, I feel overwhelmed by all the information coming out of this thread.
As I've said, it's all too soon after her funeral and we've agreed to take a step back.

Well I'm off to bed now and I'm going to try and put all this to the back of my mind for now as it's just too much for a "non legal head" like mine to process.
Thank you all for your help and advice.

I just wanted to add (partly as a warning for others): you having joint accounts with your mother really muddies the waters. My understanding is that any money held in a joint account does not form part of the deceased persons estate and simply goes to the surviving account holder. So if all your mothers cash and savings are held in joint accounts with you, all the money is now yours and not part of your mothers estate.

Happy to be corrected.

Just finished brushing my teeth and saw your post, so I'm still active!
The reason we had joint accounts was that living in a care home, I needed to be able to input and output her finances .
The sale of her house was paid into our joint account, and you're quite right, now she's passed away the money is mine until it's distributed between the four of us according to her will.

It sounds like you are going to honour your mother’s wishes as she has expressed them, but legally speaking any money in joint accounts has nothing to do with her will. It does not form part of her estate. It’s yours.

Maybe you didn’t understand the implications of having a joint account? We only became aware when MIL died and ‘her’ money that she’d wanted to leave directly to DH and SIL was in a joint account with FIL. It all went to him, as it was not part of her estate and he was the surviving account holder so whatever was written in her will was irrelevant.

Generally speaking you are correct but there are exceptions i.e.when a joint owner is added purely for convenience like in this case. It would only become an issue if the joint holder (OP) decided to abuse her power which isn’t the case

Risky indeed. I’m not a fan of financial arrangements that rely on an individual choosing to ‘do the right thing’ rather than fulfilling their legal obligations.

@Tolkienista can I ask, if you had LPA for your mother, why didn’t you use this to have control of her accounts and her assets? That’s the purpose of the LPA. Why did you set up joint accounts instead ?

im asking because my DH and his sister are currently trying to sort out their fathers financial life. Despite having POA for several years, SIL has continued to use FILs bank card (with his permission) rather than the POA to manage his affairs. DH is trying to get her to protect herself by using the POA instead, but she’s quite resistant and I’m not sure why.

Have you done Tell Us Once, OP?

HMRC took about two months to let me know what tax was payable. It might be best to wait several months for everything to land before distributing anything. I'd also advise appointing a solicitor to get advice asap because you need to be actually an executor to do anything.

Engage a solicitor.

Tell us Once is so useful

Is it acknowledged in writing anywhere that a joint account is for convenience only ? The OPs bank seem quite happy to pass the money to her alone (which I presume is the survivorship clause in action) and they really aren’t bothered what happens next. Whereas an executor (or replacement) is legally obliged to ensure that the wishes of the deceased are followed.

I’m not suggesting that the OP has any intention of keeping the money, she clearly doesn’t. It just seems a very risky way to deal with large cash assets and would allow the surviving account holder to ignore what is written in a will, if they were so inclined.

I read it as the house was sold whilst your mum was still alive and as you had POA you managed this. I’m not clear as to how the money from the house sale has ended up in your bank account (unless it was put in a joint account which has now reverted to your account upon her death) as the conveyancing solicitor should have paid it into an account in the owner - your mums’s - name.
All that being said, if the money from the sale is held solely in your name directly from the conveyancer then it won’t need probate to disperse it. In fact, legally it could be argued that the money now belongs to you! When I dispersed my DMs estate, I made an appointment with my bank and did the transfers in branch to my siblings with the bank staff’s assistance - I wanted it to be transparent with no possibility of getting it wrong!!!

Just wanted to say if anyone else is helping pay bills for an elderly relative, I am in this position for my mother in law. I went to the bank with her and got her to sign up to give me third party authority on her bank accounts. This means I can access her bank accounts and make payments from them and have my own debit card for her account to go shopping with on her behalf. She still receives statements so can see activity on her account.

Not the expert in your situation as I was the Executor too. But we got a large tax bill from HMRC two months after mum’s death ( and then ironically a refund for the subsequent tax year a month after that), so I’d hold off giving out any funds until you know all that is concluded.

As POA I was told never to mix funds. I controlled Mum’s accounts with her pin etc. I know it’s too late now, but I’d advise anyone else not to do this - I think it may be a requirement. It muddies things like interest paid on the house funds etc.

Probate was really simple for us and took about a month - no solicitor needed - and although you’re below inheritance tax as we were, it might be worth it?

Probate isn't as difficult as we've all been led to believe - probably marketing by solicitors trying to get a fee!
Assuming its a few bank accounts, some savings, maybe some shares/investments and a house, which is probably 90% of people, you can fill the forms out yourself.

The difficult bit is finding all the accounts and paperwork, which you'd have to do if you engaged a solicitor...they don't rummage through filing cabinets for you, or if they do, you'll be paying through the nose for the junior member of staff to do it.

Really sorry to hear this, it sounds like you have been managing an awful lot. I would hope the sibling who is in a hurry for the money will either step up and offer to sort it out or give you some recovery time first

When we were in this position we shared out the money but left 10k in the account to cover any bills or repayments that might come up. Will share what remains after 6 months.

Can I ask, if the monies sitting in the joint account is now technically op’s, when she distributes it amongst her siblings would those monies be seen as gifts from her rather than the administration of her mother’s will? If so would the siblings then be liable to pay tax if the op dies within 7 years?

Yes, that is a possibility. The OP really needs to talk to an accountant or solicitor before handing out any funds. Hopefully, she’ll have kept good, clear records of all the transactions in and out of the joint accounts, including any expenses associated with the funeral etc.

It might be sensible to attach some kind of written agreement / letter to the payments which state clearly that the OP, with the agreement of her siblings, is dividing the remaining assets held in the joint accounts as per their mothers wishes (and not as a gift from the OP’s own funds).

Thanks for your message.
Yes I've got clear, defined records of all transactions and meetings with the bank involved and advice given at the time.
We are definitely going to involve a solicitor, so we'll get it all sorted out properly.

Thank you for your message.
The joint account with my mother has been active since 2011 when my dad died, it's served us well.
I took advice from the bank the sale of her house money went into, so my conscience is clear that I've done everything according to their rules.
I intend to keep our joint account active and as you did leave an amount of money in for future possible pay outs.

I did probate myself when my father died in 2011 and whilst challenging it was well within my capabilities.