With forest fires burning across Europe and another heatwave on the horizon, how much are you personally willing to change your lifestyle for future generations?

[Chocolatefreak]

Genuine question for discussion purposes. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you believe tackling climate change and environmental degradation is a shared responsibility, involving not only governments and corporations but also individuals.

With that in mind, how much would you personally be willing to change your lifestyle if it meant giving future generations, including your children and grandchildren, a better chance of living on a stable, healthy planet?

For example, would you be willing to:

a) Dramatically reduce your consumption of meat and dairy, so that more agricultural land could be used to grow food directly for people rather than feed livestock?
b) Restrict air travel and most car journeys to occasions where they are genuinely necessary?
c) Stop buying more than you need, only getting clothing, gadgets, and other consumables only when they are genuinely necessary rather than for convenience or entertainment?

If not, where would you draw the line? What changes would you consider reasonable, and which would you consider asking too much?

I am willing to sign anything asking for end to wars, bombing and burning of oil facikities and infrastructure, and Musk rockets to stop. That is a lot of carbon footprint.

a) Dramatically reduce your consumption of meat and dairy, so that more agricultural land could be used to grow food directly for people rather than feed livestock?
I appreciate that this will upset some people, but not all agricultural land is suitable for growing, or harvesting food on a mass scale (e.g. hillsides and mountain land). Certain climates are unfit for particular crops. As a PP said, some flat farms are now solar panel farms. Also, I would prefer to stick to eating meat and dairy, rather than ultra-processed foods. Oh, and I try to grow some of my own fruits and vegetables, but a lot of it has suffered/died in the heatwave.

b) Restrict air travel and most car journeys to occasions where they are genuinely necessary?
I have flown once in the last 16 years. I have no plans to do so again for the foreseeable. I walk to work, so my cheap little runaround car doesn't venture out most days. It is, however, handy as I live rurally, so public transport is an interesting concept, and the nearest town has one lone taxi driver.

c) Stop buying more than you need, only getting clothing, gadgets, and other consumables only when they are genuinely necessary rather than for convenience or entertainment?
I try to buy quality items that are likely to last. As most of my furniture is second-hand, it is definitely built to last! Things only get replaced here if broken.

I would cheerfully have solar panels, a ground source heat pump and hydroelectricity, but... I live in a rented property, so it is not my place to make such decisions.

It shocks me how much perfectly good stuff is dumped, like when people wear items once or rip out their whole kitchen just because they want a new one.

With a) above - the main reason to reduce consumption of meat and dairy is not to free up land, but rather because sheep and cattle create lots of methane which has a huge impact on on the climate.
also, winter feed for these animals is usually imported soya - which could be used to feed humans.

Also @TheeNotoriousPIG have you looked at plug and play solar panels?

I've already done A and C. I'm not vegan/vegetarian, but I've reduced my meat consumption drastically (saveral days a week I don't eat any meat) and I don't eat a lot of dairy anyway. I'm also not a materialistic person and only really buy what I need.
Regarding B, I do use my car daily but public transport where I live doesn't suit my needs I would struggle to drop DD at breakfast club and get to the office on time, and the same for after school collection. Regarding air travel, I took my first flight in June since the last one 2018. So I don't think by me reducing my air miles, it will make much difference to climate change.

I am not sure that's true. There's a critical point of emptiness at which an airline will cancel a flight and shove everyone onto another one. So if you don't fly, the flight might actually not go.

The methane thing is not an issue in the UK. That happens on the huge cattle farms in the US.

Well I'm not going to do this.

Agricultural methane emissions reached 996 thousand tonnes in 2021, and are the largest source of methane emissions in the UK, accounting for 49% of all UK methane emissions in 2022.1

from this article Here

its fine if you don’t care, but don’t state misinformation. Cows are cows, UK cows are just as farty as US cows 🐄!

Surely then the best thing to do is to slaughter the cows and eat them?

Yes - this will happen anyway
but ideally would be to have less cows and less methane

@Sdmfn
Surely then the best thing to do is to slaughter the cows and eat them?

What, all of them?

Indeed, I never understand the 'oh, but the flight will go anyway' argument. Not if it's empty it won't.

It's just an excuse for not doing one's bit to help mitigate the worst effects of climate change.

I had a colleague who said that she was already doing her bit by recycling, therefore she didn't need to do anything else!

I'm no climate denier but we do realise the super el nino is behind this year's surge ?

It's not really though. El Nino only really makes it's presence felt properly later in the year, (and isn't as impactful on Northern European climate as other parts of the world). This year's heat waves and droughts that set the conditions for the fires to be happening all started too soon to blame on El Nino. However, the fact the weather is already being weird doesn't bode well for how (an already bigger than normal) weather event is going to affect things like food supply world wide.

That doesn't mean the wildfires are definitely because of global warming and only because of global warming. There is always a range of factors. But El Nino isn't really one of those factors.

I make whatever changes to my family life that I feel comfortable making, given the bulk of contributions to carbon degradations are from industry and corporates. So, some but absolutely nothing meaningful or even measurable in the grand scheme of things.

Some (quite a lot of) state/corporate emissions contributions I’m okay with, as they help developing countries develop and improve quality of life and standards of living for millions of people who could only dream of my life. But if America and China and Russia are going to continue drilling and burning and digging, continue exempting themself from global climate accords, continue propagating a culture of consumption to line a scant few pockets to the tune of billions and trillions - then, no. I’m not going to not fly or stop using a/c 24/7 (we live abroad, these are our biggest carbon legacy). I’d be denying myself and my children the life I want for us, for absolutely nothing.

I also loathe - LOATHE - the judgemental and sanctimonious tone of this thread and a small handful of people I know who like to preach. Pointing out that I have fewer children than them tends to shut them up for a while but never for good. Individual sacrifices of anyone posting on this thread make little to zero difference. One single American oil company, one single grouping of middle eastern countries making a single change, one industry turning towards a greener future for good would cost them only money and do the whole world measurable good. It’s so fucking obvious what needs to happen and what isn’t happening, so whilst they’re taking us down the path to hell I’ll have a good time on my way there. The second I see changes, I will change too.

Giving an absolute figure is pointless. The UK's per capita total (so not just agricultural) methane emissions in 2024 fell inside the lowest tier globally at 0.60 tonnes per person. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-methane-emissions

China isn't drilling for oil on account of not really having any oil. They do mine and burn coal for power. However they are trying to phase this out and are leading the world in terms of switching to renewables. Not because they are super good eco-heros as some say but because it's in their interests. Not least because the smog caused by burning coal is horrendous and a big health hazard. And it's hard to project the image of a super power when your cities are swathed in smoke. But they arent shifting from coal to oil. They are moving from coal to solar/wind/nuclear.

Russia is Russia and prone to the sort of fatalism that encourages apathy about global warming. Fortunately they aren't that important on the world stage and are busy destroying their future industrial capacity. So not going to make that much of an impact

America is currently run by a mad man. But even there in places like Texas the shift to renewables hasn't stopped because it makes economic sense

It's notable you don't mention the rest of the world. Because India, the rest of Asia, Europe etc are all also doing stuff about CO2 emissions. And that undermines the argument that there is no point the UK doing anything because we only make up 1% etc etc.

ETA I agree that big companies should be doing more. But major oil producers in ME etc only matter pollution wise because people/countries buy the oil. If we reduce the amount we use we reduce the damagem

That's per person not per cow. It doesn't mean that UK cows fart less.
Farts aside, grass fed cows that don't have to be transported thousands of miles to be slaughtered, processed or sold are the best option environmentally speaking. Since most British beef can be grass fed for large parts of the year they are automatically better for the environment than needing to grow corn or Soy separately and then feed that to the cows (eg Texas). That's because it rains. However, with the weather as it currently is (drought) lots of farmers at faced with having to buy in food because of drought which costs them and also increases the overall greenhouse gas effect of beef. A small example of a negative feedback loop in climate change

Drought aside, it is probably better to eat less beef and make sure the beef that is eaten is from this country and grass fed over summer. But you can't stop cows farting.