Anyone had “the chat” with their daughters

[Fledglingsflying]

DD is near the end of y6. I want to forewarn her without scaring her about unwanted attention she is likely to get when she starts travelling independently next term.

I think helping them learn to travel independently, carefully and with awareness of their surroundings is the important thing to do and then dealing with any unwanted attention can be handled as part of that, either because it's avoided or because she knows what to do if she feels uncomfortable in any way at all, whatever the reason. My dd and friends have been travelling independently for two years now and tend to be making choices that mean they're around other people, aren't walking along on their phone (high incidence of phone theft around us), or with headphones on, and they go in a shop to call someone if they've missed a bus and are not sure what to do next etc.

Yes I did have this conversation actually in Year 5 when she was walking 1.2miles to school alone every day.

And then again in y7 when she started taking buses and trains alone.

I broke it up in chunks - so it started with making sure she knew her route, and where to wait on the platform or at the bus stop. Check she can tell you why it is important to stick to a route you know and follows well-trafficked roads or paths.

Being aware and not glued to her phone that she didn’t know what was happening around her. Keeping her purse out of sight. How to deal with strangers talking to you. Trying to travel with friends or at least staying near a pack of people, not alone.

Added to that I’d test her on what she’d do in certain situations - if her friend suggested walking a different route which left her somewhere unexpected on her own (we have a lot of quiet paths near us) what would she do?

If she thinks someone is following her, what would she do?

If a man or adolescent boy starts walking beside her or is talking inappropriately, what does she do?

My dd started self-defence and martial arts training at age 8 because I wanted her to know how to defend herself; how to make a lot of noise and the RIGHT noise to get attention (screaming kids are often ignored); the importance of running away not standing to fight. So I don’t need to remind her that she will never be able to overpower a man/ big teenage lad.

She’s 15 now and I think, with 8 years of martial arts and self-defence training, if some sleazy bastard tried it on, she would at least do some proper damage and might even be able to disarm him of a knife with a bit of luck.

I truly wish every parent in the land taught their girls self defence, it has done immense good to my very petite size 4 dd!

I also talk to my dd about news articles. Sarah Everard was a hard one to discuss - the fact that you can’t trust anyone at all, even the police, is really difficult to understand as a child.

Not quite the same as my DD is only 7 but if conversations ever veer towards anything like this I always tell her to trust her gut, if something feels off it usually is. Another thing I’ve told her is that adult strangers will never ask for a random kids help so if they do, they are lying. There was also an incident around where we lived recently where a man tried to get a girl into his van, that actually turned out to be a good conversation starter and we spoke about what we would do etc.

@AlreadyBetty I can imagine that was a really hard conversation!! What did you say to her??

OP, I haven't. We live somewhere pretty safe and she travels very independently by bike, bus and on foot. I don't know that her being scared would make her safer. She's very reserved with people she doesn't know so wouldn't interact with a stranger willingly and the risk seems very low where we are, although obviously not zero, sadly. I would talk to her if we had a local news issue I suppose, although she might tell me first. I might be too relaxed about this but I am not sure I can prevent anything terrible from happening by telling her it might, if that makes sense. She isn't daft and is fairly cautious by nature.

My ex brother in law insisted that his children should remain within ten metres of him at an almost deserted beach due to the high number of child abductions from Devon beaches (we weren't in Devon) and I did think his kids looked miserable and mine was rather confused and just thought he was a bit weird, which seemed logical, so I am afraid I have veered in the opposite direction, rightly or wrongly.

I did the same for both DCs, boys can attract the wrong sort of attention too, being wary of adults that want to sit close to them on trains or start asking them personal questions (or start talking to them at all), knowing how to get help or move to a safer space (move carriage, speak to guard, go into a shop and find someone in uniform or wearing a badge), avoiding deserted alleyways etc, knowing your route so you don’t get lost. Staying with friends if you are out with them and not leaving anyone alone unexpectedly. Once they had phones, as well as our numbers and their friends I made a mutual agreement with some of the friends mums that lived locally that we could put their phone numbers in all the DCs phones and that they could always knock on any of their doors.

As with PP, I've never shielded them from the news or from life. They saw the reporting about Sarah Everard - they were 8 and 6 at the time (13 + 12 now). I've always treated them the way my parents treated me and always been completely honest with them. Protecting them does no good given everything these days.

I've taught them independence from a young age (they were walking to school in primary school, for example). And honestly, having dogs has installed a lot of confidence in them from a young age - they learned to tell people 'no' or in some instances to 'go away' (they've always been taught that people do not have a right to pat the dogs and that they should always tell people that they're not to pat the dogs and if people push it then to walk away). They've also been taught things like 'if you see a dog that doesn't look under control, cross the road' or 'the owner gives you a bad feeling, cross the road' and again, they've taken that and applied it to other parts of their lives. If someone gives them a bad feeling, they move away from them. Children are pretty intuitive and smart.

And that confidence in being able to say no to adults, is pretty evidence now in how they interact with adults in general. Honestly, the thing I find really sad is how sheltered other children are - they can't even order at a counter (for example) because they have no idea how to interact with adults - and in my eyes that makes them vulnerable.

I just made sure DD in year 7 was always walking home with older brother (who is 3 years older).

My dd is 3, I already talk to her at her level about these things and will build on it as she grows up. We've already had instances of men tussling with her hair when saying hi for example which she doesn't like so I talked to her about that.

You should have it. No one had it with me and I felt embarrassed and ashamed like I was doing something wrong.

What a world we live in .... 🙁

What did you think you were doing wrong unexpectedlysinglemum and what information would the chat involve?

Thank you. These are helpful. I’ve spoken to her from a very young age about inappropriate touching, her right to say no to anyone that she doesn’t want touching her, stranger danger, adults will normally ask another adult for help rather than a child and so on. I haven’t spoken to her about the unsolicited comments/calling out/letchiness etc that she’ll be encountering soon.

The school that she’s got into are bringing in a no phones on site rule (so therefore no phone when travelling if anything goes wrong).

I've had these chats with my DDs. One thing I made sure they understood is that it is okay to not be polite to protect yourself. I think we're often told to be kind and polite to other people. That's generally a good rule but I think it's also important to teach our DDs (and sons too) that there is a place for not being polite if the situation demands it.

@AlreadyBetty I'm sure your tiny daughter is ninja like, but even imagining her tussling with someone with a knife is demented. Empower her but she's not a super hero. If anyone sees a knife they should scarper.

Thank you.

I always taught that politeness and kindness to adults - especially males - comes (way) after personal safety and instinct.

Never get trapped in the inside of a seat. Always sit on outside of seat and offer to let someone who wishes to sit beside you sit in inside if necessary fibbing that you’re stop is coming soon. Sit near and in eyesight of driver if possible.

On walking routes to school identify shops etc with decent staff that will be a potential help/ refuge. Friend’s son on walk to school was harassed by man and ran into newsagent he used to buy sweets from every Friday after school. Newsagent put son behind counter, shouted at following man and called police.

The best self defence classes start by teaching it’s best to avoid the situation in the first place ( awareness of surroundings, no headphones, knowing your route, awareness of people trying to cross and testing your boundaries, not losing your voice or freezing).

The second lesson is to get away from the aggressor.

Only after 1 and 2 do techniques aimed at disabling and shocking the attacker to enable escape come into play.

Different as I have sons, but I always talked to them about being aware of their surroundings when out, knowing what risks women and girls face and how to avoid making the matter worse-not walking close behind, if they are slower either pass them or cross over etc.

I’ve talked with them about how groups of teenagers might make people uncomfortable or nervous.

Hopefully parents of some are doing the same.

I wouldn’t say it’s one chat I think it’s more a series of chats. I remember my dad put the fear of god in me when I was about 11 and was totally ham fisted with the whole thing. I was convinced I was gonna be kidnapped on my way to school by a pedo.

I would say frame the conversation around trusting your gut, and that it’s okay to be rude. I remember when a bloke was trying to talk to me at 12 (in my school uniform) and I felt almost bad? I went home and told my mum and said I didn’t want to be rude to him, and she explained it’s okay to be rude sometimes and that you absolutely should be. Loud and rude. Same guy tried it the week after and I basically started shouting “you’re making me really uncomfortable” and “I’m 12 why do you keep trying to talk to me and follow me” and that worked.

Thinking about it, I have done a series of chats, it’s just the volume of unwanted attention I haven’t broached yet. I hadn’t thought of the outside seat advice, thanks. It’s not a great route for shops, but there are a few at some point. It’s mainly residential in the arse end of nowhere, then dual carriageway, subways and alleys. I will try to get her to take the longer route (about 15 mins extra each way), but there’s no avoiding the dodgy underpass. We don’t yet know anyone going to that school that lives the last fifteen minutes or so, but if she’s leaving on time, there will be lots of children heading towards the underpass (and hopefully not bullying ones)! The school used to be split across three sites/schools, merged to one school across two sites with a seven form entry and is now all on one site with a nine form entry.

Is underpass well lit etc? Perhaps council would be receptive to parent and school request for better lighting, security cameras and so on ( especially if sent registered post so you have record for sad Daily Mail piece ‘ I asked council to sort out security, but …)
and if there is that increasingly rare thing - a community police officer - adding underpass to patrol at school leaving times might be a possibility.