How to make boundaries with brothers partner, without upsetting everyone.

[touringmymind]

My brother has a new partner of 2 years and she’s lovely and good with his children, the issue for me is that she has very high standards compared to us and will expect my children to use her hand sanitiser if they have been on a swing or touched a railing or something public.

I don’t have these expectations with my children but when we are out together, she asks all the children including hers, my niece/nephews and mine and they all do.
She was reminding my children not to touch things or to discard a bottle of drink because it had been on the floor, something that doesn’t usually concern us.
I notice if my mum joins us she has started to remind everyone to sanitise all the time now which is not something we’ve regularly done, She is quite concerned with anything going on the floor like a handbag and any toys that have been in the garden or dropped on the floor are cleaned.
I don’t want to change to fit in with her but my brother seems to get quite angry if we don’t all go along with this when we’re together.
Would you just do it for her or be yourself?
I notice my brother has adapted to her expectations and so have my parents.
Dh and I think we should just be ourselves but my mum thinks if we don’t play along we will exclude ourselves.

We consider ourselves to have good standards of cleanliness but we don’t want to have to meet the standards of someone who lives in a show home and obsessively washes their hands every time they touch something because in my mind she potentially has a MH issue and I don’t see why our family should be humouring this.
I feel like saying something when she starts squirting sanitizer in my children’s palms because they picked up a stick or a shell but I don’t want to upset my brother who is so taken with her he’s going along with all this.

I realise in the scheme of things it may sound like I’m making more of this than I should but I find it weird that the whole family have just changed to fit in with someone who has just come into the family.

It’s not as if we are unhygienic or live in filth, we are just a normal family who aren’t obsessed with germs but it seems we’ll be ostracised if we don’t play along and meet her approval.
I miss when we were all just ourselves, that’s what family is to me.

Sanitiser is not as efficient as soap and water either as it doesn’t actually get rid of any dirt etc off the surface. I’ll only use it as a temporary measure when after being on the train or tube until I can wash my hands before eating or cooking but otherwise I’m not washing everything down every time it’s been put on a floor or on the ground in a park etc.
I also made the mistake of trying to get something out of my eye when wearing contact lenses - I’d forgotten about the sanitiser. I couldn’t see a thing and had to take the lenses out as it was too painful. Then couldn’t see at all because I’d not brought my glasses with me. DCs had to be my guide dog!!

Can you just be causal about it? like
SIL "Lilly please sanitise your hands now"
YOU "No need to sanitise now, just make sure you wash your hands before you eat."

This is a tricky one. I am diametrically opposed to hand sanitisers as it can’t replace proper hand washing and will contribute to a poor immune system and possibly anti microbial resistance. So, if I was you (which I appreciate you’re not), I’d say something along the lines of ,
”I’m really fussy about that because it doesn’t really wash your hands does it?”

im sure you do t want to start a row, so I wonder if simply taking a step back and not seeing them for a while will prompt your brother or parents to ask why, which will give to the opportunity to have the real reason absolutely dragged out of you, even though you didn’t really want to mention it. I bet your brother knows this isn’t healthy.

Don't humour it. And push back politely and firmly if you feel bullied by her or anyone else. The script where she plays the drama queen and everyone does as commanded...I d be putting that script in the bin.
Having your own decent standards is no offence to her. Her neurosis is not something you have to take.

A peck is just over 9 litres. So, quite a lot of dirt!

Re meet ups on "neutral" territory, I would have a conversation with your brother in advance. Say that you believe his partner's obsession with hand sanitising is unhealthy and that, whilst your brother gets to make the rules for his DC, he does not get to make the rules for yours. Having laid the groundwork, I would then stick firmly to that line when out and about, eg "Uncle Tom and Auntie Kate make the rules for [names of brother's DC]. I decide the rules for [names of your DC]." I would say to your brother that you are happy to get behind the idea of sanitising hands before touching food, but you are not going to stand for a situation where your DC are forced to use sanitiser every time they touch a piece of play equipment/gate/tree.

I think that’s a really good way to go.

Say 'we're fine thanks' and go about your day. If your brother gets angry say he's being weird, and you're all fine thanks.

He doesn't get to have everyone dancing to appease his girlfriend. Spend less time with them if they choose to be unenjoyable company.

I had a family member like this, her daughter ended up worse with ocd and scrubbed her hands so much they were red raw and bleeding, she’s been unable to go to uni as can’t bear to touch things or be around people and obviously covid made it worse, I wouldn’t let my children think this was normal

If she has OCD, which it sounds like she may do, you're not 'humouring' her by going along with this, you're more likely to be preventing a serious panic attack. If your kids don't mind having their hands sanitised, leave them to go along with it. Some extra hygiene is nothing to get worked up about really.

Id be dodging spending any time together tbh.

My mother used to say that. 2 gallons make a peck, 4 pecks make a bushel.

They learned that by recitation at school and it was printed on red Woolworths exercise books.

Unfortunately, while humouring may avoid immediate distress, it tends to reinforce their belief that their behaviour is logical and sensible. Then it gets worse and worse. Medical advise is not to amend your own behaviour in response.

That isn't high standards, it's an OCD level of obsession. It's a shame that other family members are pandering to it. Why are her wants more important that your normal way of life?

Hand gel didn't exist in the past, and before COVID it wasn't used much. It isn't a necessary thing at all, neither is constant handwashing.

Tell her your kids have sensitive skin so you won't be using sanitizer.

Anyone that tries to parent kids when their own parents are present and capable shouldn’t be humoured for too long. She may well have mental health struggles around hygiene but I’d be cheerfully and politely intervening every time she advances on your DCs with the hand sanitizer.

She sounds obsessive. I wash my hands before touching food, during cooking, before eating and after using the loo, or if something gross gets on my skin. Other than that a bit of dirt never hurt. My family are very rarely ill, I think you need to build up your immune system rather than antibacterial-ing the whole world around you. Not sure what I’d say to her other than “What’s made you so scared of germs?”

I don’t think that’s going to help!

@touringmymind YABU for pandering to her when you're not even in her home. I would tell her in no uncertain terms that you do not want your children to develop OCD so please do not tell them to clean their hands- that's our job as parents.

Your brother is not doing his children any favours enabling her OCD but that's his choice.

With the hand sanitizer, I'd probably say something like "Oh no. That's bad for their skin."

With cleaning things that have been on the floor I'd say something along the lines of, "It's fine as it is. We're not going to be licking the bottom."

If she pushes back, I'd send the children off to play and tell her very plainly, but as kindly as possible, that her actions are unreasonable, that exposure to germs in this fashion is an important part of building a healthy immune system and her pushing her anxiety on to your children is unacceptable.

If she has OCD, other people going along with it is generally not good for her as it reinforces the idea it's a good thing to do. And what she's doing isn't simply a little extra hygiene, it's increasing the risk the children will develop disorders too.

I find constant use of sanitizer- which needs to be above 70% alcohol to be effective, very drying
l do use wipes if no alternative but she sounds obsessive
Say it causes dermatitis, and take some water wipes
children need to encounter bugs to build immunity, but there is a big difference playing outside than accidentally encountering dog poop.

I would just breezily tell her - oh no a bit of dirt is actually really good for the immune system. And quickly change the subject. On repeat until she gets the message.
I would find this really annoying so I sympathise!

Agree with others that you should have a clear boundary on this. Something like ‘please don’t give them sanitiser, I don’t want them to be nervous of the outdoors. We wash our hands when we go inside.’ When the inevitable victim complex arises don’t be guilted. Have a script ready for your brother or mother such as: ‘I understand and respect her concerns about hygiene for your children/her stepchildren. I am concerned however about my children having as much of a carefree childhood as possible and it’s not up for debate. I understand her view and I don’t interfere with your/her parenting choices and I’m just asking the same respect for me and my parenting choices.’ I find that these conversations become about the adults feelings whereas they should only be about the children’s needs. If you keep bringing it to what’s best for the children then it keeps it much clearer. So for responses like ‘but she’s really upset and feels you’re judging her’ you can say something like: ‘Us adults can look after ourselves. I don’t want my children to be worried about playing with a stick. They only have one childhood. We’ve all been adults for a while. This isn’t about the adults it’s about what’s best for my children.’

You do you, OP. I am similar to you and not bothered about kids touching things like swings and play equipment or having toys on the floor. I think this is normal. If she tried to put hand sanitizer on my children, I would say something like, ‘oh don’t worry, a few germs here and there will be good for their immune system, we aren’t too bothered about that type of thing’.

I would also talk to my parents about that and I would say that I was finding it a bit much. Ultimately it’s not healthy for kids to have so little germ exposure.

I actually think it’s rude that she is putting hand sanitizer on your kids. She could ask if you wanted to borrow hers, but beyond that it oversteps a boundary.