Can I give homemade raspberry jam to a vegan friend?

[Secretsquirrelshh]

Interesting ethical question. Our raspberries in our garden have done well this year. I always soak them before freezing them and then making jam when I have enough.

Sometimes when I'm soaking them, tiny white wriggly insects come out - I'm assuming some sort of fruit fly larvae, and I don't expect for a second every single larva is out (but it makes me feel better that I've done something rather than nothing). I think I accept that there will probably be a few larvae and it's best just not to think about it too much.

I was planning on giving a jar of my raspberry jam to my vegan friend, but can I do this in good conscience, knowing that there may be a little bit of insect protein in there?

I'd probably ask her whether she'd like some rather than give it.

If she is hard core then she may well refuse it anyway, or just accept it and chuck it.

Asking someone whether they would like to have something is better than giving it if refusal is likely to offend.

You don't make jam with gelatine.

It's fine unless you also put sausages and bacon in the jam.

TBH I wouldn’t think twice. Presumably she ingests millions of bacteria every day, in whatever she eats.

I don't want to eat a bug either - but do you accept that your food chain likely includes tiny bugs?

Ask them as they will be able to give their feelings better than anyone else but if you go on the Vegan Society website they define veganism as "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
The 'possible and practicable' is because it is not possible to totally avoid all harm to animals (you wouldn't be able to walk in case you trod on something etcetera).

Nobody wants to eat bugs but the alternative is everything covered in pesticides. What would you prefer?

I'm more interested in you washing them before freezing them. I thought there would be too much water round them. Do they freeze ok then?

Which would still kill the bugs by poisoning them instead of them being eaten.

who uses gelatin to make jam? and yes there is a vegan gelatine substitute its called agar

Do you not eat any fruit or veg?

If pesticides haven’t killed the bugs then I’m afraid that you are eating them. They die for you either way.

ummm i am vegan and right or wrong I would gratefully accept it. I love jam and again right or wrong I eat loads of jam

The only way to avoid having insects in fruit would be to douse the raspberry bushes in insecticide, which would be far worse in terms of killing high numbers of insects, plus potentially poisoning animals further up the food chain who eat said insects

It'll be fine. In fact I (also vegan) will also have some.

I had this with a whole crop and sad to say, couldn't face it, didn't eat or do anything with them. But, just a thought, had I made raspberry jelly instead it would've been fine!

Or a really fine mesh!

Feels like @Secretsquirrelshh is going to become chief jam supplier to MN vegans

Why don't you just ask her?

I leave them in a sieve to dry out as much as possible before freezing. They are a teeny bit mushy when defrosted (don't look massively photogenic) but are absolutely fine for jam-making purposes, or putting in a meringue roulade, or eating on top of pancakes.

Tonight, Dragons, I'd like an investment of £100,000 for a 5% stake in my company of Mumsnet's Vegan Caterpillar Jam.

I would check with your friend. I know that raspberries are specifically mentioned as not kosher as they are so known for being hard to eliminate bugs from (and insects are not kosher) so if someone is a very strict vegan they may not eat raspberries.

Ask her? Offer her the jam but say you noticed a few grubs when washing them?

Once the uber capitalist, megalomaniac rulers of the world have finished setting the world on fire with war raging and climate change denial we'll all be eating bugs for pure survival so might as well get used to it!😃

Considering there are tiny bugs all over our skin, do we draw the line only when we can see them?

I doubt she would mind as a vegan, but probably more because she hasn't thought about it. I'm not sure i'd fancy it if you presented it to me (not even vegan) with a detailed explanation about the potential larvae, it's just the idea!

I am vegan. Here is a definition from the vegan society which might help.

Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

So in a nutshell we do our best. I would soak fruit before making jam and hope all the bugs came out. So long as you did that too I would be very happy to receive some jam!

Exactly as @SueKeeper said, I didn't want to ask my friend before I packaged it up for her a) because it's a gift and b) because if you tell someone "I made this lovely jam but essentially it's probably full of bugs" - it's going to put them off! If you don't know the lovely jam has a few bugs in it, you will probably just enjoy the jam.

I think I'm happy now that basically everything has a few bugs, and all things considered, organic bugs are better for the environment than pesticides.

I didn't know that about kosher though. Every day is a school day.

My dog has a sensitive stomach and she has kibble made from insect food. That's her excommunicated from the observant Jewish community!