How to discipline a 3 year old who doesn’t give a shit?

[Sheismycherrypie]

What do you do when chats, tellings off, toy confiscation, cancelled treats, raised voices etc don’t work? If they just laugh at you? And even give you their toys to confiscate?

My 3 year old refuses to get and stay in his bed. He’s an expert climber and easily scales furniture and his stairgate, so can’t be left alone. I easily spend 1/2 hours each evening trying to settle him while he laughs, gets out of bed, runs around, switches the light on. Please don’t say a later bedtime; he’s not going to sleep until 9pm as it is and he’s always up at the crack of dawn. He is tired because when in his car seat and therefore restrained at the same time he falls asleep then.

I’m exhausted and desperate for an evening. I’ve tried everything. I’m at the end of my tether. What would you do?

Sounds like the interaction with you is the game/fun part for your 3 year old. Could you try totally blanking him when he gets out of bed, so zero interaction on your part. Also no tv, toys, etc. Would he then realise it's not a game or really fun anymore and then ask to be put back to bed?

Is there another adult in the house who can take on bedtimes?

Have you tried Rapid Return technique where you don't interact just put back into bed again and again. Sit at the bedroom door with a book and be very boring.

(NB half an hour bedtime is not that bad)

I meant one to two hours

I just lie there with mine till she sleeps unfortunately

Once when my 2 year old was not sleeping in a hotel room, I put him in the car and waited for him to fall asleep, then transferred him to his bed. Can you do this? May or may not require driving around.

He isn't tired because as you say, he's getting a lot of sleep in the car.

Can the car journeys be changed/stopped?

1. Try to stop thinking about it as a discipline issue. Is he good in other ways? Because falling asleep can be really hard for kids periodically, and it doesn't help to see it as misbehaving when it's finding it hard to wind down.
2. If the car works, do it. But try to avoid it looking contrived - go for a daytrip and transfer to bed after driving home, have tea and bedtime at grandparents before driving home. Sometimes just being used to sleeping earlier helps.
3. A later bedtime might help, as he might be tireder when the routine starts. But not massively -15m etc.
4. Number the things you do - 1) brush teeth, 2) nappy on etc, to give a nice strong association of all the things in the right order.
5. As PP say, the thing he wants is you and your interaction. We stay with our son on the condition he lies down and is quiet. This usually means he falls asleep!

There is literally nothing in the two short posts from the OP that suggests this.

Please re read my post. I’m talking about the odd occasion we arrive home late, not an everyday (or even weekly) occurrence

I lost it this evening and took every toy out of his bedroom and said if he didn’t lie down and try to go to sleep he wouldn’t get them back. He apologised, lay with his head on my lap and dropped off about 15 minutes later.

Ugh. He can be so sweet and lovely and other times he just laughs at you and it’s hard not to see red when you’re running on fumes. The kids have barely slept for 3 nights because it’s been so hot, I’m exhausted and just want to sleep

I didn't have any toys in my DD's room at that age (we had space to shove them in the corner of the living room, which I appreciate not everyone does). Her bedroom was just the place we went to in order to read a book and go to sleep. I had to sit outside her bedroom every evening for a week once as she was doing something similar to yours. Just lots of "it's bedtime". Then giving lots of praise if she lay down in her bed on her own. Otherwise not reacting... I'm sorry & it's awful when you don't get any evening time xxx

I used to read dc quite a few books at this age, when they were in bed, until they got tired. Really good for getting them calm and also really good for creating a love of books too. Is that possible?

I'd lay with him at this age, I did with my two and they both sleep independently after a story now (just turned 5 and 9).

Not what you want to hear, but some kids just need less sleep than others. Mine are also on the low need end of the scale and I feel your pain. The rapid return did work with one of mine for getting them to stay in bed, but not for getting them to actually sleep. I dream of the days of grumpy teenagers putting themselves to bed and wanting a to stay there!

Can you look into some sensory seeking activities to do before bed so he can get that input/fix in his nervous system to maybe help him feel calmer.

Obviously not wanting to patronise you, so what have you tried? Removing toys clearly isn’t motivating him so you just need to work out what he responds to.

What’s his bedtime routine? Is there a wind down period before you’re even mentioning bed time? Are your other kids running around playing and getting him excited? Or are they calm?

I think he may well be enjoying that attention he gets from you in those hours where you’re trying to wrangle him back into bed. My advice to you would be to watch episodes of Supernanny on You Tube. I know her methods aren’t for everyone but she definitely got results.