What disorders or illnesses do you think some of the worst dictators suffered from?

[likelysuspect]

Just watching a programme about Mussolini. I havent really looked into this person much before. Ive read a lot and seen a lot of programmes about Hitler for example but not this one, or many of the others to be honest

But they describe him as quite violent from a young age but shy and instransigent. Later being excluded for stabbing a pupil. Being sent to boarding school and then felt isolated. Apparently he struggled to learn to speak.

People like him and Hitler and others clearly didnt have what would be today described as SEN or learning needs as such but what was wrong with them exactly?

oj Simpson and the Whitehaven shooter had head injuries. Jimmy saville had a serious infection as a child which potentially had some neurological effects.

it’s a bit dark but I do find it an interesting line of enquiry and less simplistic than just ‘evil’

Yes, its fascinating

Jimmy Saville though I think was surely attachment based. He had a hugely unhealthy obsession with his mother. Perhaps abused himself. Also quite grandiose in presentation.

But I thought that most psychopaths are opportunists as such whereas people like him and Hilter (and others) were great planners, big schemes.

Your thinking is flawed here. Unless you can say that you know about them because they destroyed your life please don't assume to know what they are or aren't. Psychopaths actually are planners and schemers. They are calculated. There's detachment from the fallout to the victim. Opportunistic too, sure. If meant in a sense of 'Impulsive' then not so much but will go further than normal folk if they perceive the end goal as something rewarding to them (not so great for the victims of course).

Please don't ever compare any of these people to SEN. SEN is not a lack of capacity for empathy. It can only appear that way. The brains of SEN people have fully developed empathy centres. How they're often unable to act on it in the usual sense to give the appearance of empathy is due to the other things that come with SEN. But the capacity for empathy is absolutely there. The difference I suppose is that once shown it won't purely be motivated by self-interest. SEN people actually are some of the best people around when it comes to wrong and right and they have enough to deal with without the misinformation. Thanks.

To answer your question.. psychopaths, malignant narcissists, sociopaths are all likely bets. It is not likely to be a mentally ill but non-personality disordered person.

The God complex.

And I include Johnson, Farage, Thatcher in that.

@likelysuspect
I think it’s an interesting conversation.
My partner is a diagnosed cluster b disorder often cited in these discussions, albeit high functioning, and he insists that the “over eagerness” to label people with SEN often enables people to continue their behaviour until it gets critical and dangerous.

I think this is really interesting also. I really enjoy psychology and sociology as a hobby.

I've learnt a great deal about psychopathy, which is a broad spectrum and not necessarily going to mean someone will kill or be a serial killer. I understand it's believed to be biological/ physiological/ genetic/ possibly heritable.

Then sociopathy, believed to be possibly inherited or an increased genetic risk with environmental factors then setting a sociopathic state of being off. So an horrific abusive childhood could make someone susceptible a sociopath. But there are thoughts that extreme over indulgence, little prince worship and no boundaries could set up a sociopathic personality type by early adulthood.

I say could here because many people CHOOSE not to be a horrible piece of shit in spite ofan awful background. I therefore feel that genetic susceptibility is important in sociopathy.

I hadn't thought about head injury or illness - but that makes a lot of sense. So many health conditions are missed, ignored, not easily identified with current systems ( if you can get anyone to even investigate properly. I think about what Robin Williams was suffering, only identified after autopsy)..

I also believe that people, no matter what, including people without psychopathy or sociopathy, if pushed enough, under the right conditions, can do horrific things they never thought possible.

I would need to cite evidence but believe strongly there is an overlap with certain presentations of Autism and aspects of Cluster B.

I agree ref the accountability though. The reason doesn't matter if the intent and / or outcome is causing harm.

No armchair diagnosis from me. Just regurgitating something I learned while watching documentaries on the telly and reading genealogy publications.

Quite

Its a chat forum, in the 'chat' category!!!

The environmental factors don't explain others with horrific childhoods who are not like this or capable of it.

There's a complex interplay of genetics and environment I believe that we don't fully understand yet and possibly won't.

There's a distinction between people who never had any empathy or care for others at all and those who did but circumstances might have bashed it out of them.

I see myself as high in empathy but can actually imagine losing it over time if I was in a war situation for example feeling constant injustice and subjugation. I think it can influence people to go dark in ways they think they wouldn't be capable of. I don't mean becoming a peadophile like Saville, but hurting others in horrible ways, including support or encourage or even direct involvement in their death, and justifying it in their own minds. We are all capable of this I truly believe.

Trump is a lot sicker than the White House says. He has dementia, had some sort of stroke. Plus has many bruises on back of hands -IV canula bruising. White House say this is due to excessive hands shaking. BS The bruises are on parts of the hands where other hand's don't touch.

Im not sure dementia/stroke would explain his behaviour over the years, he has many of the traits I was talking about earlier in terms of Mussolini and Hitler

Ive just remembered another one, Vlad the Impaler. Used to throw animals off tall towers.

He is so creepy. But anyone in that positiion makes me suspicious. Maybe others hide it better.

Look at what Clinton allowed Lewinsky to have to cop, knowing full well she was telling the truth. Enabled and supported by his wife.

Some hide it better.

The paedophile thing is difficult to fully understand. I am horrified the more I read about Michael Jackson and struggle to listen to some brilliant music without thinking how appalling a human being he became.

Oh he’d lose his shit if you compared him to someone living with autism or adhd. It has happens before and I can see why. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there were links but I’ll leave that to the experts to work out.

I'm prepared to be flamed tbh. I have read a few articles which would explain the co morbidity but it is pretty insulting to come out with from my armchair I do accept 😆🙏.

I also think that as well injury, mental illness etc, you have to take account of personalities, which like everything else, are as much genetic and environmental.

We did the Colour Insights at work, and the session was a lot of positive and challenging stuff about all of the profiles - not knocking anyone, but trying to appreciate the strengths etc.

But the practitioner gave private feedback about one senior staff member whose dominant traits were Dominance and Supportiveness - which overlapped perfectly with his very controlling nature. He was inclined to bully, but also to pick favourites and protect anyone who he thought was weaker - led to a complete shitshow of HR. And he completely failed to acknowledged his controlling and domineering ways because he had this picture of himself as a nice guy. (Other staff were upfront about having issues).

Robespierre and the committee for public safety used to meet in a stuffy room with green wallpaper.
And in that room they became progressively more and more paranoid and ordered more and more executions.
I've always wondered about arsenic poisoning

Yes me too. Don’t know why someone think it’s in poor taste. What an odd comment.

Wow this is strange. Private feedback about an individual based on an insights personality test, which is at best pop psychology?
I’d be really upset if my data was used for anything else than the team building exercise…

Yes I wasnt really think of MH, I was thinking along the lines of ODD in children or conduct disorder, PD, attachment disorders, ND. I hadnt considered brain injury and that is interesting.

Personality absolutely but dictators like that are really extreme.

Or are they?

That wasn't Hitler, one of his generals I think

Very interesting discussion...will follow along.

Goering isn’t even in the song!