When will people realise that pensioners have paid for their state pension.

[notsafeanymore]

Every time there is a debate about the cost of living pensioners get a bashing.
And some have also paid for a private pension.
It's people who have never worked that should be targeted first.
I'm not on about the disabled. It's people who are benefit cheats and have never worked.

"Anyone starting work after 2018 is in a better financial position, pension wise, than anyone working before with ‘others’ paying something on their behalf"

This is largely untrue. I cannot see how anyone can claim that private pensions are more generous since 2018 then they were in before then.

Historically most pensions were defined benefit with a fixed cost to the employee (% of salary,) with the risk of underperforming pension funds borne by the employer.

Since 2008 the vast majority of these types of pensions are unavailable / closed and those that's aren't have had their values slashed by linking to career average salaries, the benefit being 1/80th rather than say 1/40 or 1/60 of the years worked and contributions increased.

In essence the pension is less valuable than they were so it's a cut In remuneration/ pay.this is still better than DC pensions where employers contribute far far less and the risk of poor investment returns is borne by the pension member.

The only real difference is that these pensions are now mandatory for even the low paid but in no way will they provide the level of income that state pension does ( for low or average earners at least)

Your 3rd para
Less than Half of pensions ie those in large businesses but mainly public sector workers have a defined salary pension
That’s not most

Of the other more than half it’s only since 2018 that employers must pay in
The more than half of pensioners today and all those born before 2000 have not benefited from their employers all paying in to a pension

Anyone 26 years and younger has this benefit

We can’t ignore more than half the population just because some had it better
Setting up that as a modus operandi would mean we could ignore half of all age groups just because some have it better

That puts paid to the entire concept of a welfare state

"The more than half of pensioners today and all those born before 2000"

How many current pensioners are there born AFTER 2000???

According to government statistics on pensioner income, Almost 70% of pensioners have a private pension with only 13% relying solely on the state pension. For older retirees (75+) these pensions are almost exclusively DB linked.

This will change going forward as there are only 900k ISH people accruing DB pensions today with the majority in future having DC pensions which are less valuable and less secure.

You seem to be arguing that future retirees will have it better than current pensioners? Try telling that to any 20 or 30 year old. Even public sector pensions have been drastically reduced using all methods available.

I cannot understand how anyone can argue that workplace pensions are more generous than they were before 2000?

Walkden
why would you think there are pensioners who were born after 2000
The year 2000 is the point at which people hit 2018 and could be working so therefore will have the benefit of employer contributions all their working lives
Apologies. I thought that date would be obvious

The point is anyone born after 2000 has the extra benefit of employer contributions. There is no way to assess how and who in the entire future population or indeed past one has it better or worse.

For the future, we don’t know yet.
In the past ( ie current pensioners ) we can see db pensions were better but that’s less than half of pensioners today and only relevant to those who signed up at the time still working. That’s not nearly everybody and a small proportion now and we can’t base policy or understanding on just them.

In terms of improvements since 2018
Its simple maths to appreciate that if it’s not just the employee paying in to a private pension then an extra ££ is acrued
It’s also worth noting pricate employers didn’t have to take on a new employees existing pension. They could insist a new employee take their firms extg pension. This resulted in people who moved jobs having multiple pensions. With management fees at 2% an employee would find themselves with multiple pensions having to pay 2% into each one just to pay for it to be run. Nothing adding to the pension. Many many people have/ had lost pensions over the years. I have lost 2 pensions before I was allowed to transfer the others into my current pension. I still lost £££ in doing so though.
If people are not in the private sector I understand they may not appreciate the difference between public and private sector safeguards in the not very distant past.

These safeguards are in place now in the main and rarely happen any more ( although people still retain non transferable pensions from past employment and still find those running dry )

So yes, today’s workers born on or after 2000 have it much better in terms of both payments and protections

One of today’s pensioners could have given birth to a Nobel Peace Prize winner, worked for 50 years in a job which enabled them to help others have better lives, been political and marched for women’s rights, basic human rights, nuclear disarmament, against wars or things like bigotry.

Lived their whole lives for the greater good and the young people on this thread would say they took out more than they give in and shouldn’t get a paltry £1k per month to live on.

Biggest mistake we made was creating a generation of whiners who have respect for no one, including themselves.

As evidenced by the moaning minnies on this thread.

No, but compulsory pension schemes were pretty rare in the past. Nowadays they're the norm. You also benefit from state and private pension but that;s highly unlikely for today's younger workers as there's very little chance of a state pension for all in 40 years' time and it will either be means tested or rolled into pension credits or other benefits for those with little or no other income.

I don’t care.

Totally wrong assertion. I'm in my 60's myself, not a young worker, but I can see the difficulties faced by today's young workers. The potential pension changes future taxation etc won't impact me at all, but I actually think and care about younger people who are definitely being screwed in lots of ways compared to my own and older generations.

Just to be clear. I am 62. I don’t get a state bloody pension!

Again. I don’t care. You remind me of Victor Meldrew.

I am not a boomer. You seem unable to take information in.

There isn't a "huge benefit" because all that compulsory employer contributions has led to is lower pay rises due to the cost to the business. Average annual pay rises havn't increased anywhere near inflation over the past couple of decades and part of that is the ever increasing burden and cost on employers. Plenty of people don't even have a job anymore, or havn't been able to get their first job because of the additional costs put upon employers which have caused them to close down or reduce their workforce size.

Just reminder it will be today's youngsters who you clearly hate who'll be wiping your arse in the care home when you're older.

I do have children you know. No need for the crude language.

Agree
The burden is higher there have been job losses
It has impacted salaries

However
At least now people can be assured they have a pension that an employer has to pay into and that a new employer has to take on board if they move
That level certainty and ability to forward plan has only recently existed
Of course private pensions can all
( or some ) still be lost in a crash.

Saying it’s better than Nothing isn’t great but it still is nevertheless

This will change going forward as there are only 900k ISH people accruing DB pensions today with the majority in future having DC pensions which are less valuable and less secure.

The government employs over six million people in the UK & they are all accruing DB pensions.

And all paying into them.

Not all retirees today have paid into the system, and claiming otherwise is misleading, only fueling resentment from some young adults who view older people as villains.

What really gets under my skin is the blatant ageism—such obvious and intense dislike for anyone over 50. It’s everywhere, even on Mumsnet, where I’ve seen endless ageist remarks.

I can’t help but find it ironic that young people criticize older generations yet make no effort to secure their own retirement. It’s almost comical watching them complain online about the issue while bashing older folks, all while seemingly banking on inheritances and celebrating when relatives pass instead of putting in the work themselves.

I’ll definitely tell my teenage sons there won’t be state pensions for them because they’re middle class, and their parents’ background and assets will keep them from qualifying. They laugh about it now, but they’ll realize it’s true one day. I’m confident they’ll be fine financially if they stay as smart and focused as they are now. They’re already making money and chasing big, ambitious dreams.