Could my symptoms be bipolar, ADHD, or anxiety related?

[MarmaladeSandwich7]

DD17 & I went on one of our therapeutic drives yesterday & had a fascinating chat. She ended up saying to me, not for the first time, that she thinks I could be bi polar. I googled some symptoms as a lot of what came up in our conversation really resonated with me but when I took an online ADHD test, I became very emotional & started to wonder if that’s the reason I’m different. Would be so grateful for any advice & guidance. Sometimes it’s such a struggle being me! I get extremely anxious too but it’s more than just the eternal worrying. Exhausting!

Hello, it must have been difficult to hear that from your daughter. I have ADHD and I suspect I also have PMDD (currently tracking symptoms to discuss with doctors). I have a close relative who has a diagnosis of Bipolar, it took them having a serious psychotic episode and lengthy hospital admission before they were diagnosed, after many missed opportunities prior to this.
I understand the anxiety and emotions that come with having concerns about severe mental health needs - from my own point of view and a family members perspective.

Did she say why she felt that was the case? Did she say what she thinks you should do/ what she would like you to do with that information?

Some questions for you to consider:

What symptoms/behaviours have you or others around you noticed?
How long have you had these? Does anything trigger them? How do they impact your daily life? Do they get worse at certain times of the month? Anything that helps improve them?

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/helplines/ you could call somewhere like Mind for some advice/support.

You could then book a doctor's appointment to discuss your symptoms, it would be helpful to keep a diary of symptoms/mood changes etc so you've got evidence. It may be useful to see if there is a GP who has a special interest in mental health, or some GPs have mental health nurses/practitioners linked to them you may be able to be given an appointment with to discuss what is going on for you.

ADHD has often historically been misdiagnosed in women as bipolar. But unmanaged and unsupported ADHD can often mean a person develops a borderline personality disorder (BPD) or EuPD. They are very co-morbid. They are distinct from bipolar, but as I say women historically have been misdiagnosed as BPD and many who spend too much time on SM and ticktock confuse the two. A professional can dinstinguish them these days.

ADHD is the way you are made. It’s your neurological and cognitive style. It impacts not only learning and social interaction but can be linked to migraines (in response to stress of over stimulation), hypersensitive bladders etc. It’s ‘fixed’ in that it’s the way your brain/nervous system was formed in utero and with help you can acquire tools to manage it. A diagnosis, and the support it enables you to access, can be positively life changing - even in older individuals (I was diagnosed recently, after both my children were).

BPD /EuPD, as far as I’ve understood it from professionals, are like depression or anxiety (also co morbid with adhd) in that they are a dysfunctions that may be linked to the ADHD but - as Neurotypicals get them too - they are not in and of themselves a result of the ADHD. Nor are they ‘fixed’/permanent but emerging illnesse. Thus, like depression and anxiety, you can take medication have therapy (eg DBT) and fully recover from them over time. You may be prone to recurrences but you are not stuck for life.

Rather than panic about the possibility of being bipolar [you would likely have known about it decades ago if you were, as it tends to emerge in mid teens/young adulthood. You’d have had an episode by now? ] I’d explore the ADHD diagnosis and the support and different therapies you can access for anxiety/depression in the light of that. Different medications and treatments work better in ADHD/ND people so it’s useful info even if your focus is entirely about depression or anxiety. FWIW it useful to note that ADHD symptoms often worsen during peri/menopause so if you feel things have been getting worse after turning 40ish, again, a diagnosis can really help with reframing and managing the menopause related symptoms.

Thank you folks. I wouldn’t even know where to start with listing all the symptoms that I have but what initiated the discussion was my difficulties with boundaries. DD explained that she had actually lost friends when she was younger because of how I had behaved with their parents (some of them were my friends). I can think of at least 4 people that I have lost as friends because, as I realise now, I overstepped personal boundaries eg texting way too much, getting into a long conversation when a friend came to pick up their child ( DD said her friends had heard their parents say they dreaded seeing me sometimes because they just wanted to get home 😢) & in some cases persisting with very irritating behaviours because I hadn’t grasped what my friends were trying to tell me. I felt awful when DD was explaining it all but it did make sense.
If I look back I have always been what you would call eccentric. I’ve been bullied a lot & often feel, even now in my early 60s, that I’m different & on the outside looking in. One of my Managers apparently said about me “Marmalade is a lovely lady but mad as a box of frogs”. Luckily I’m generally very well liked/loved but I’m constantly overanalysing everything, always thinking I’ve done something wrong - my brain doesn’t switch off. DH & I have just been away for a night & I noticed that I found it very difficult to relax. I kept wandering from room to room in the flat we stayed in, straightening things, and I couldn’t focus on the tv for long. DH was happy to chill a bit before we checked out & went to find a place for breakfast but I was restless & just kept asking him what time we should go, poor chap. It’s rare for us to have time to ourselves. One of the things on the ADHD list particularly resonated - constantly losing things. God, it drives me potty! Definitely not an age thing as I have always been the same. Exactly like DF actually. Losing stuff or leaving it behind. Then I suddenly get fixated on having to locate a certain item I haven’t seen for a while. Currently, it’s a pendant that I bought on Vinted. One object can take over everything! I can get disproportionately upset whilst looking for something.
Now I think, there’s so much going on & so many times people have described me as “scatty”, “away with the fairies” etc. I’ve been sacked several times but quite often in a super nice way because my employers were very fond of me & also realised that I am deeply sensitive. When I “left” one job I got a card, flowers & was taken out for lunch!

Personally I don’t believe I’m bi polar although I can see how DD would come to that conclusion. I’m an alcoholic so some extreme behaviours came from the drinking. Addictions is another thing eg booze, online shopping, codeine, scratchcards/slot machines ( not all at once but one addiction seems to replace another). Constantly searching for that dopamine hit. I keep buying from Vinted & the house, which we’re trying to declutter, is starting to resemble a warehouse.
Just to add that DD is on the spectrum & can be extremely blunt but she talked to me with empathy & honesty which I admired her for.

Definitely sounds like you have adhd. Bipolar is quite specific in terms of mania. Look up the symptoms and see what you think. Makes it quite easy to distinguish. My exh sounds a bit like you but one particular manic episode got him diagnosed bipolar, I’m not sure he is I think the mania was Valium fuelled. It’s hard to tell when someone is self medicating with substances to see the real issues so I’d start there with recovery from that and then assess the real underlying cause. You’ll need help with recovery though, it’s very hard with neurodivergence as it’s a coping mechanism as much as an addiction. Once you’re sober you can be properly assessed and hopefully find a medication that gives you some peace. Sounds exhausting

Nothing you’ve said is jumping out as bipolar, but ND certainly sounds like it could be playing a part here. Remember there’s a genetic component to it too so as your child is ND, you or her father are more likely to have it too!

Another thing is planning what to say eg for a social occasion. That can sometimes paint me as a bit odd & certainly random!

DD17 is adopted

@MarmaladeSandwich7 I would approach your GP and use the Right to Choose service for both ASD and ADHD. You've coped as well as you can, and you've used coping strategies that aren't good for you. With the right diagnosis, you might be able to get better treatment that helps you without harming you.

Ah 😁. Well in my experience ND people tend to recognise ND people so it’s still worth taking her POV on board and giving it serious thought.

This is common in autism!

I would suggest looking into ASD. There is a large overlap and yes for many undiagnosed women/men who have been unsupported their behaviour as it gets experienced by others, which is essentially how these get diagnosed, can become pretty much indistinguishable from a personality disorder.

However bipolar in my experience is very different it presents as mania and depressive episodes that are very extreme.

@Trumptontown that has crossed my mind too.

I am by no means an expert but to me, everything you describe sounds much more like autism than anything else.

Everything youve said sounds quite typical of women with autism. It’s possible that you’ve subconsciously used alcohol as a way of numbing the chronic stress of masking / constantly trying to fathom how to live in a neuro-typical world.

Absolutely nothing from your description indicates bipolar affective disorder. There’s a lot of ignorance and myths around bipolar (sometimes shortened to BPAD), and a 17yr old is highly unlikely to understand much about about bipolar. I suspect she’s muddling it up with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) which is characterised by difficulties with boundaries/interpersonal relationships/emotional regulation. Any alcohol use on top of that can magnify the emotional instability. Borderline (BPD) is nowadays known as Emotional Sensitivity or EUPD. Very linked to early life trauma, so it overlaps with complex-PTSD (c-PTSD).

Approach GP with your posts from here, request a Right To Choose referral for Autism and ADHD referrals (specify BOTH), and go from there.

(Mental Health Practitioner speaking)

Omg op you sound very like me! I just paid for an appointment with a psychiatrist who said I likely have ADHD. I have struggled with alcohol dependency since I was 18. Haven’t drank for 8 years now. Im 60.
But, have recently developed an online slots addiction and have taken occasional diazepam to clam myself.
I have also lost friends and jobs through being too “intense” and having no boundaries. I do have some good friends, but they are all quite unusual!
Would you dm me for a chat if you want to compare notes? Not sure if I can dm first as don’t have the premium feature.
I can tell you how I arranged my “right to choose” referral fir ADHD.

Just in general I’d caution against going too far down the self-diagnostics route at this stage. Over-identifying with people with certain types of presentation can be unhelpful as it can create confirmation bias, reflected in how you present to professionals. I know myself as an MHP that it stands out a mile off when I’m assessing someone who’s aligned themselves with a particular group or persons or online forum and become convinced that that’s what they definitely have. It makes it v difficult to unpick differential diagnoses.

Id strongly suggest stepping away from online research and away from making connections based around people who feel your presentation matches theirs: they will be well-meaning but not diagnosticians. In my opinion (and I don’t know you so this is just my two-Penarth based on the job I do) your first port of call should be booking a non-urgent GP appt and requesting what is mentioned in my PP.

Hi op. I have managed to send you a dm. Hope that’s ok!

Ps: I’m a little uncertain around the helpfulness or otherwise of your DD’s approach and your unquestioning taking-on-board of her comments. It sounds like she’s really not held back in terms of telling you lots of negative thoughts about you / your behaviour / how others apparently see you / how her friends parents avoid you (horrible) / how in her OPINION she has lots friends due to you etc etc…..
These are really devastating things for anyone to be told. I question the helpfulness or kindness of telling you these things in this way. If my DS told me this I’d feel despair and shame.
Remember that the adolescents and young adults in our lives are by their very nature very self-centric, and know how to lay guilt on with an uncanny skill. They also have a tendency to find their parents shameful, embarrassing, cringe etc. Teens telling their parents that they’ve caused them to lose friends is a common, yet cruel, behaviour.

There’s no need for you to take everything she says as gospel. She will be viewing you through the lens of you being her mum. Mums get accused by teens all the time of being “too much”, “too cringe”, “ruining their lives”….. So please take the negatives of what she’s said with a pinch of salt.

Ironically, the fact you unquestioningly believe her viewpoint is actually v consistent with a ‘black & white’ / ‘right or wrong’ autism presentation. But please don’t assume everything she’s said is ‘right’ just because she’s said it. Remember: you’re the adult / parent / person experiencing these things. She’s not got the worldliness, life experience or tact yet to be wholly trusted to make these assertions as gospel.

@MarmaladeSandwich7 I concur that I also think you are likely ADHD with an element of emotional dysregulation perhaps from not understanding your symptoms. I’ve also had issues with losing friends because I can be hyper, over-talk and my attempts at empathy and explaining that I ‘get it’ when someone shares by telling them about when it happened to me has made them thing I was making it about me etc. ADHDers (esp if you have autistic traits along side) kind of need support learning how to dial themselves down - at 57, with 2 kids I’ve been supporting and then learning about my own diagnosis I am much much better at self regulating, at telling people to tell me to shut up, at realising (often a bit late) that I overtalked and apologising. There are ADHD mentoring programmes, books etc that all give support and some great accounts on insta (ADHD love I think) that helps you laugh at all those annoying traits.

BUT - and it is a big but - I also have amazing friends who even before my diagnosis and definitely since have accepted me fully and completely as I am. As had my husband. I am ABSOLUTELY mad as a box of frogs at times, talk too much when nervous, struggle with pauses in conversations, have had debt/spending issues linked to obsessive hobbies and collecting, periods of hoarding my treasures. I also am prone to drinking too much and am currently getting supoprt fror that as it is the vice I turn to when life is really difficult (significant issues with my eldest AuDHD child who has the full house of ‘letters - OCD, EuPD, RSD, ARFID and so on). The diagnosis really helped me to understand what was driving my compulsions - they don’t go away, but I am quicker to recognise the drive/urges. My GP is brilliant and ‘gets’ ND - she has a clear idea of which anxiety/depression meds work better with our form of brain and insists on titrating much more slowly onto meds other people are given at higher doses. She also knows that I am a bit non-compliant - I take it for 6 weeks, maybe even up to 4 months fairly regularly, but then decide I don’t need it any more - she insists on a monthly review.

I am also a bit crap at routine - ie remembering to take them daily. I have always been the person who buys the expensive beauty regime and does it religiously for 2 weeks, forgets a few times in week three and then discovers all the unused and now out of date pots in the back of the cupboard a year later. The most consistent habit I have every had is Duuolingo - because it nags me every night to keep my streak. I now use apps and reminders to keep othe stuff on track.

Lastly (sorry long reply - ADHD tends to lead to verbosity and oversharing) please don’t take your daughter’s comments too much to heart as a personal attack. She is 17 and at the age when children have come to separate from same sex parents and are driven to differentiate and establish an identity that is dinstinct from the family hub. She is trying to work out where she fits in the world beyond you. Teens are notoriously critical of parents (and their mums) at this stage - even if you are not ND, this would be happening.

So long as you always came to parenting her from a place of love, if you muddled through because you didn’t have a perfect template of how to parent yourself (most of us have had dysfunctional ND parents), then she will eventually see that. You didn’t lose her friends because of who you were, her friends and their parents lacked empathy and insight into individual differences and made a decision to step away. I have absolutely experienced this. I’ve seen that moment in a ‘friend’s eyes when they have switched off and then ghosted me. But I also have a few rather wonderful, caring and special friends who have been in my life for many, many years. Friends who love me and will simply tell me to ‘STFU darling and let me finish my point’. My DH and I have been together for 34 years. 25th wedding anniversary is next year. He is my best friend [I may be feeling tearful as I type that].

So, please don’t be down on yourself - please instead explore a diagnosis and then, if confirmed, explore coaching and medication to help manage any depression, anxiety, self esteem. It has been liberating for me, even though I only did it to shut my kids up. Sending you an unsolicited and overly enthusiastic hug.

And fuck me, that was a long reply. Am reallllly sorry!!

And what a brilliant reply it was. It made me tear up. I felt so seen.
Could I ask what ADHD medication Youre in please. Im awaiting an assessment and not sure stimulants wouldn’t exacerbate my anxiety!
Recently, a “friend “ who always TOLD me she was a good friend etc. was really rude to me when I said I thought I had ADHD, she snapped at me, and then told me I was too much, made everything about me, and then ghosted me. I was so upset. Your post really has made me feel less alone.
I also have some friends who accept me and maybe even like me because of the way I am.
We should keep this post going as a support for one another!

Am so glad it reached you. Am doing a PhD in which I’ve ended up looking at mothers/mothers of autistic children [it’s in creative writing, lol] and through interactions here in MN I am hoping to get funding to run a project with late diagnosed ASD/ADHD women as I’d like to produce a volume of short stories and essays that explore the impact their [undiagnosed] ND has had on their lives, their self-esteem, the nature of their formative relationships. So many women feel attacked because ‘why do you need a diagnoses in your 40s or 50s?’ But knowing, understanding, can be life changing. I have - hopefully another 30+ years left knocking around on this planet, if understanding my ADHD for that period means I can have enhanced relationships and a better quality of life, don’t I and other women like me deserve that?

re meds - so I opted to go on Elvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) rather than Ritalin/adderol aternatives (methylfenidate) because it works slightly differently. It is often used for binge eating/Eds and other compulsive behavioural conditions as well as ADHD. It is also long lasting/slow release. You start on 30s and work your way up as needed. There are a few side effects and I have to be honest I didn’t get the clarity and focus I had hoped for until a few months in on a higher dose. i was prepared for that, though, as my daughter tried 3 different medications before getting to Elvanse and for her it was immediate and transformative. She also takes a small late day dose of methylphenidate. I came across it on a ‘parents of ND student’s FB page where I posted that we were at the end of our tether for my daughter and the parents there were amazingly supportive. There is a big, supportive and very knowledgable community out there without whom my DD would not have got her act together and now be at uni. The right medication in the right dose does actually lead to a lift in mood and a cessation of anxiety - again, liberating if you have been battling both all your life. To realise I am not weak or somehow deficient in resilience but just not regulating my ADHD has really made me feel so much better about myself.

Re anxiety/depression meds. It seems that ND folk can react differently to NTs - not surprising, as our brain chemistry and wiring is different. So many SSRIs don’t work or patients can have really difficult to manage side effects. My GP favours escitalopram. When my DD began it she started on children’s drops of 2.5mg increasing in fortnightly/4 weekly doses. It took over two months to get the effective dose, but GP felt this was the best way to mitigate the side effects, see whether it worked and to be able to withdraw/stop it more quickly if there were issues.

I can really recommend search FB for ‘late diagnosed ADHD’ and even add ‘women’ in - there are some great support groups there and they are so helpful with understanding diagnostic reports and which medication paths might be helpful.

My ADHD doctor (consultant psychiatrist with decades of experience) is of the opinion that bipolar is a type of ADHD. I think this is probably a fairly controversial opinion but she is one of the leading ADHD psychiatrists in the country so I wouldn’t dismiss it. For that reason, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that people think you have bipolar but it is actually ADHD.

I have ADHD and bipolar op. What you describe is not bipolar.

Thanks for replying. Re the medication, that was helpful.
If you need any subjects for you late-diagnosis women project, I’d be happy to help!